The Legal Department

Prioritize Happiness: Building Effective Outside Counsel Relationships: Tim Reimers Sheppard Mullin

The Legal Department | Tim Reimers | Outside Counsel Relationships
Prioritize happiness is not the advice you’d expect from a real estate partner in Big Law. But Tim Reimers isn’t In the average bear. In this episode of The Legal Department, we talk about how to build a mutually beneficial relationship with outside counsel and how in-house counsel and GC’s can set the tone in deals to keep the team focused on the mission at hand. Above all, Tim underscores that relationships matter and that building the team is what it’s all about. If you do these things, you’ll avoid “big misses” in real estate matters and elsewhere in The Legal Department.

 

 

Listen to the podcast here

 

Prioritize Happiness: Building Effective Outside Counsel Relationships: Tim Reimers Sheppard Mullin

 

On this episode, I’m excited to welcome Tim Reimers, who is a partner in the real estate department at Sheppard Mullin in Los Angeles. He and I work together, which is why I know he’s going to be a great guest for this show. This is a little different format. It’s more popery because typically I’ll do a technical episode or a professional development episode, and this is going to be a combo of those because I know you’ll enjoy it. Tim is one of the rare lawyers who thinks about professional development and team development. Tim, I’m excited to have you here.

 

I’m thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me.

 

Every year in my career I try to pick a different technical area to bone up on. In 2018, that was going to be real estate and instead, it became sex abuse and managing a massive scandal. I haven’t gotten back to that. I was excited to have a relationship with you where we could have a back to basics conversation about real estate law for general counsel. 

 

It’s been fun working with you. It’s an important thing for in-house lawyers to understand, particularly since most in-house lawyers aren’t working in a real estate company and it’s a tertiary piece of what they’re doing. 

 

Real Estate

 

I want to probe on that because as general counsel, we have a wide waterfront of issues and most companies have some real estate relationship. Either they own real estate or have a lease or whatever, and those things come up and many of us are caught flatfooted. I was hoping maybe you could give, what are the things this high level that GCs you think need to know about real estate? 

 

There are three things that I’d focus on. The first is complexity. Sometimes real estate matters get compartmentalized or seen as not the core business, but it doesn’t make them any less complex. The ownership financing of real estate is more complex than many non-real estate practitioners appreciate, then there are the business decisions, understanding the economic decisions and their drivers when deciding to own or lease property, how to leverage that, those assets, how to operationalize those assets. There are a lot of business decisions that go into that in helping your internal clients navigate that can be a challenge, then it’s the variety.

 

In real estate, there’s dirt, buying a building or buying a piece of property and developing it. It brings in many other aspects. There’s pure real estate work. There’s finance, most real estate is a joint venture these days. There’s a corporate practice in real estate and then in operationalizing it, insurance, construction, labor, IP. It’s bringing together a bunch of skillsets. It fits very nicely in the GC role where you have to navigate those things all day and figure out how they come together. Understanding that all those pieces exist given real estate transaction, whether it’s a small lease or the development of a housing project is important to understand. 

 

Thank you for highlighting that I think when we talked before, you said that sometimes real estate can appear to be commodity work. It’s a lot more complex than that. 

 

It’s true that sometimes, for instance, leasing work that’s commoditized. It’s interesting to me because leasing can be some of the most complex pieces of it. You are into a headquarters lease for your organization. It could be a 15 or 20-year lease with millions of dollars of payments that are due. Sometimes those payments are complicated because they’re not just straight rent. They’re pass-throughs, they’re repayment of tenant improvement allowances, which are like internal loans within a lease. Understanding those expensive endeavors is important to the operation of a business. We see folks not focusing on it, they’ll make other multimillion dollar decisions and spend months agonizing over those. We’ll sign a lease without thinking twice about some of the costs and operational issues that come with it. 

 

Who would be a good partner for the GC in trying to understand that financial complexity? Would it be a CFO or Director Of Finance? Do you need a consultant? It’s a great point. It’s like a shadow economic transaction. You’re thinking of it, “I need a place for my office, but there’s big money involved.” Who would the GC partner with to understand that better? 

 

There’s a director of real estate that might that would be good. In many organizations, if they don’t have a large real estate portfolio or large needs, don’t have a role like that. If your CFO has experience in those spaces, that’s helpful as well. Your outside consultants, like your brokers and the like, can be very helpful if you push them to do that analysis and talk to you about it. One of the best places to be in that is to have a relationship partner with one of your law firms that does real estate.

 

The Legal Department | Tim Reimers | Outside Counsel Relationships
Outside Counsel Relationships: One of the best places to be in is to have a relationship partner with one of your law firms that does real estate.

 

You and I have spent a bunch of time talking about real estate issues and other issues. I think that a lot of lawyers would invest the time in helping to educate the client on a no-fee basis on some of these business decisions. It helps you understand what your client’s needs are so that you can execute the work well in the future when that work comes up. Getting to, whether or not you’re going to buy a building or lease a building helping make those decisions, most lawyers in the space understand those considerations and while they’re not economic advisors can help lead you down a path of asking the right questions of the folks who are advising on those matters. 

 

General Counsel

 

That is helpful. I think we’re going to get into the outside counsel relationship a little bit later, but I appreciate you highlighting it here as a real concrete example of how to partner. In general counsel, the name is general. We have to know a little bit about a lot of things. When I hear things like triple net lease or TI recapture it, it not make you nervous, but feels like there’s going to be a bit of a learning curve that you may not be able to get on quickly enough to get the deal done like, “Where do we start?” 

 

It’s hard because there’s not a great primer unless you want to dig into it. Young real estate professionals will often go to multi-day classes to learn about the ins and outs of leasing. Asking those conversations of your outside counsel as primary materials is a great place to go and not letting pieces of the transaction that you don’t know the answer to go, insist that you have it explained again. I’m sensitive that you probably don’t also don’t have time to do all of that or to sit and learn to do leasing while in the middle of a transaction. 

 

You don’t. However, this is a common thing that I try to do in other deals or other situations as well. You can’t give good advice if you don’t understand the topic. You can do your best to try to fake it, but I do think that there’s no stupid question or something like that. I’ve been in many rooms where I ask what is a basic question because I don’t understand and I see people perk up because they may not have known. That’s good advice, and I appreciate that. The other thing, and I don’t know if this comes through as outside counsel, but everyone wants to look smart. I don’t want to look like an idiot, especially if I’ve got a client in a meeting with you. It can be awkward. 

 

That’s why pre-planning those conversations before we go to the internal client or go to the external negotiation is important and helpful. Anybody who’s passionate about the job that they’re doing is happy to talk to their clients, friends or whatever about those things. Sitting and taking ten minutes to explain how a TI allowance works with your general counsel is great. because you’re passionate about the work that you do. They’re thirsty for the knowledge. That’s a great investment of time. 

 

You’re going to have these different situations. Maybe somebody has real estate experience, maybe they don’t, but we do know the business typically and we usually know the politics. I would think those are things that we could add in terms of supporting you in advising us on a real estate deal. How else do you find GCs add value in real estate transactions?

 

I think that’s exactly it. I often see the GC’s role amongst all their other jobs is to be a liaison, translator and diplomat within the organization. We need you to help us speak the language of the organization to the organization that they can receive advice. If we don’t speak your language, we don’t understand your priorities in your organization, we don’t understand who the players are. We may be saying technically correct things, but we need to speak it in a way that people are going to hear it.

 

The General Counsel role, amongst all their other jobs, is to be a liaison, a translator, and a diplomat within the organization. Share on X

 

GCs can remove barriers. They often see the thing that is coming. We’ve tread that ground before getting the approvals and getting the buy-in on the front side. Keeping track of even the good corporate practice of getting board approvals and letting us know how sick you’ve got a board timing things publicly. How long we need for that, what considerations, what are they saying in board meetings about these things? That stuff outside the council usually doesn’t have a perspective on and isn’t at that table.

 

I imagine that that’s information that’s valuable to you.

 

The more we know about the organization, the better we can tailor our advice. We can also shortcut issues. If you’ve already dealt with that issue, you’ve already got a position on it, you’ve been burned by it, you haven’t been burned by it. I don’t have to explain to my wife, for instance, the history of what we’re going to have for dinner. We can say, “Do you want to go to that place?” We already know that we had a good meal and we didn’t have a good meal that time what all the experiences are because we’ve had that communication. We’ve built out a relationship around it. 

 

The Legal Department | Tim Reimers | Outside Counsel Relationships
Outside Counsel Relationships: The more we know about the organization, the better we can tailor our advice.

 

A lot of the stuff that GCs can do to help their outside counsel is to communicate the issues in the relationship within their organization. I see it a lot like an ambassador role. I imagine an American ambassador to some country that I don’t understand, their culture often has to explain what American culture is to the decision-makers in that other country so that they can figure out a way how to relate to whatever that American policy is they’re trying to move forward. I see the GC having to have that difficult role of trying to communicate with people who are probably speaking two different languages and coming from two different places. 

 

You see me.

 

A big part of that is often the internal pressure and the politics that are underlying the decisions. If I get an assignment that says, “Lease this property. Buy this property,” we can do that. We can help you make decisions, push through things and say, “This is market. This isn’t market and so on.” Why you’re doing it is probably more important than that you’re doing it in order to get a good product out of the work. This isn’t even just in real estate. You are true about everything. 

 

The other piece is that I think that wielding their power wisely. The general counsel can play a bunch of different roles in a negotiation, even if it’s not in their wheelhouse and they’re not participating deeply in the negotiation, they’ve outsourced most of that. Being around for those negotiations coming across the top in an email that says, “Absolutely not. We’re not doing that.” You can be a hammer for those things or you can be a reconciler.

 

You can see that the thing’s getting hot. One of our mutual friends was a GC at another healthcare company. We were on a deal one time and he slammed the brakes on the thing because it was getting too hot and reminded everybody what the mission was of this health organization and reset a deal by doing that and wielding that power wisely was a good move being able to sit back and do that. It is a nice thing for the GC to be able to do, but it’s also an important responsibility. 

 

Outside Counsel

 

You seem to appreciate the role and a lot of the arrows we have in the quiver and the load we have to carry. Back on the hardcore real estate piece. I think it’d be helpful. You mentioned brokers and outside counsel, who are the key constituents in real estate deals. We talked before about big misses, but maybe we could talk about those relationships and how and whether GCs should develop relationships with those folks.

 

Your biggest players in the space are going to be the market makers, often it’s the brokers who are bringing transactions, investment bankers who are serving in that advisory role. There are all sorts of financial consultants, advisors, construction consultants, and contractors. Lots of people trying to sell projects, whether it’s, “Come and lease here. We want to build you this hospital.” There are consultants who are doing that.

 

Your biggest players in the space are going to be the market makers. Share on X

 

I think it’s good to have relationships with them with as many as you can often to hear what the rhetoric is to be on their emailing list, know what their priorities are and what projects they’re doing because you might see something in somebody else’s project and be like, “I’d like to do that. I’d like to learn more about it.” Market players in the space will do that for you. 

 

What do you mean by market players? 

 

I mean the attorneys. We track market trends. We know what others are doing and I think it’s part of our responsibility to bring those trends to you when we’re talking about the possibility of a transaction, which rolls us back to the why. It’s important that we understand the why of what your organization wants to accomplish with the transaction so that we can help find pieces to get you to that why as opposed to executing on a mandate, “Go buy this piece of property.” If I don’t know why I’m buying it or I don’t understand the why, I can’t do the diligence to make sure this property is going to do the thing.

 

There might be something else we should consider instead. 

 

Those priorities of the joint ventures might come around it and opportunities to be creative in the transaction. Sometimes the why feels weird. We’ve done a lot of transactions where we do a lot of healthcare and where the health system wasn’t planning on making a ton of money by being there, but they wanted to be ubiquitous. You can imagine wellness clinics and, and big pharmacy spaces.

 

They’re used to be. People are not doing that now.

 

I don’t know that they were making a ton of money in those, but it became like Starbucks and there’s a Starbucks on every corner. The idea some areas would want to be ubiquitous, but understanding why makes a lot more sense in how we could execute that transaction in an efficient way to achieve the client’s goals. 

 

I would guess you are just using that as an example like beliefs or by decision. If you’re trying to carpet bomb a certain geography with a new thing, you may want to be able to get out quicker and not have to own a lot of bricks and mortar. 

 

You might want to not have to own, but your cost of capital as a nonprofit that can borrow in a tax-exempt market and such may be a lot better than the other users for that space, a regular real estate developer. You could make headway economically by choosing to buy. Your organization may be different than the one down the street that doesn’t have access to that type of capital. Understanding the full picture of the organization helps in developing a strategic way to implement the project. 

 

That’s shining through in this conversation, building that relationship and making sure as in-house counsel that we’re explaining what is our, what our business drivers, what we’re trying to get out of it ultimately seems time well spent on both ends. 

 

One of the leading big misses as we were talking about big misses is under communication, being super sensitive to the time that it takes to adequately communicate. Investing in a relationship with a provider of services like a law firm or I can imagine a director of real estate wanting to invest with their best brokers and such, investing in that relationship. Experienced attorneys are going to want to know what’s on your mind and what’s deep in your organization because what they want to do is they want to think about not just this transaction, but your future things so that they can help develop your priorities or move transactions towards your priorities.

 

Be that trusted advisor, think ahead, deliver services that you, or maybe even we don’t know you need at the time, but the more we understand, the better that we do the thing that you’ll need to do. My take is they’ll normally do it for free. You and I speak probably not as regularly as I’d love. I enjoy our conversations, but for the most part, I’m happy to talk about my business so that you can learn it because it’s going to make the deals that we do in the future be more efficient, then you’ll be happier and then we’ll be happier. Being happy is something that I think people think about enough in their jobs. If you work with good people and you’ve got good communication It sure makes this thing better. 

 

The Legal Department | Tim Reimers | Outside Counsel Relationships
Outside Counsel Relationships: If you work with good people and you’ve got good communication, it sure makes this thing better.

 

I think you don’t appreciate that until you’ve had a relationship with a lot of friction. As I reflect, I had in certain circumstances smooth mutually beneficial relationships with outside counsel that I totally took for granted. That this is how it always is. First of all, onboarding someone new is a ton of work on both sides, building that relationship, especially in our Zoom life where there are fewer lunches, dinners and in-person meetings, it’s hard. As you said with the time pressure, it’s like, “Do I have time to set up a fifteen-minute virtual coffee with Tim to shoot and catch up?” Maybe not.

 

I hope it’s not gone or the days. When we represent a big Catholic health system and we realized early on that each of their hospitals had a different psychology or personality.

 

Different culture.

 

We took it on to go and visit each of the main hospital campuses, try to meet with their leadership and hear their voice so that we could deliver a product for that hospital campus that was going to meet their internal culture. That was a big investment to do that, but it made it much more worth it. Trying to put a square peg in a round hole, even within a system would not have worked as well. 

 

Inside-Outside Counsel Relationship

 

Onboarded a new council recently and they were pressuring to come on-site for a visit. I was like, “What is this about?” it’s helpful to see that. Maybe this is a good time to transition into that conversation I wanted to have about inside and outside council relationships and I’m going to call it a Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus conversation, like the John Gray book from the ‘90s. Many in-house counsels have been at firms before. We have at least a glimpse of what law firm life is like. I got off that ramp very early in my career. I was not a partner. I don’t know what those pressures are like. I was hoping maybe we could talk a little bit about what’s your job, what’s my job like and see if are there things that we could be doing to enhance a relationship. 

 

I love the setting and the intent of doing that, trying to find mutual benefit in the thing. I know the pressures of a big law partner are a lot. Not to diminish anybody else’s pressures at all, but production, getting work in the door, bringing dollars in and competing for space, which includes notoriety and good work. There’s always this competition going on. 

 

Do you mean inside the firm there’s competition? 

 

Some firms are more than others, but even within the firm, there are resources and scarce. Every marketing dollar is going to be spent one way or the other. If I want Dodger tickets to go see the Cardinals, they’re here for two home stands. I got to compete for those. Those are the fun ones. These are in no particular order. In recruiting, retaining and developing, there is a huge pressure. I put a lot of that on myself. I’m a big fan of that piece, but there’s a lot of that.

 

Staying up to speed and being the best. We’re always pushing and then keeping everybody happy. All these interests that are pulling on, keeping things, keeping you going is an insatiable job. There’s never enough of anything. There’s always a desire for more that’s us lawyers type A’s always pushing for more. All of that said, it’s great because we get to work with great people, do amazing things and build stuff that’s important for the future. I imagine that you have all of these same pressures and more. 

 

It's really just an insatiable job. There's never enough of anything and there's always a desire for more. Share on X

 

I do. I want to build on what you said a little bit more. I was talking with another big law partner and it was an astute observation. I wonder if this is your experience as well. They said, “In very few other roles, are you the talent, producer, biller, collector for that, talent developer, and marketer.” You have all those different roles. 

 

There’s almost no training for some of them. We both went to law school. We learned how to do the legal analysis.

 

What did we learn there?

 

Systems, but nobody taught you how to market. Nobody taught you how to communicate to a client through your bills. Nobody taught you even how to bill efficiently. These are all things that you learn by trial and error. It’s not a great learning system. I think firms are doing a better job now of trying to teach people to do it. That’s a place where our industry could improve. 

 

Part of one of the reasons I’m doing the show is to help lawyers develop and level up. One of the things, and I’m going to touch on this because you’re here, is from the in-house counsel perspective, especially big law, the bills are high, especially for junior people. I’m so glad I’m not starting out now because as my perception, you tell me if it’s right, is that if you’re junior, it’s hard to give them work because people like me, when they see a first-year billing out at $500 or whatever an hour, it’s like, “Sorry, I don’t want to train your person to review a lease.” The rate pressure I would think is having an impact on associate development. 

 

I think it does, although we have a lot of flexibility at our shop to train foot-to-train folks. If their work isn’t productive in advancing something forward, writing it off before it goes to the client doesn’t come with a big penalty for the associates and such. Everybody handles those sorts of things differently. This is part of the insatiability of the job. We need to deliver the nearly perfect product. You expect nothing less.

 

Especially when it’s expensive.

 

All the time and like an ER doc who feels that they have to do a head CT when somebody comes in with a twisted ankle because they don’t want to get sued for missing something. I’m not saying they do that, but there’s that pressure that you have to deliver perfectly. this is one of the places where the communication should come in.

 

If we know you and your priorities and you don’t care so much about that waiver of subrogation or this insurance issue or so on, the more that we’re ingrained and we understand better, we can deliver an efficient product. It’s an interesting job. I do some securities work, like the disclosure work for bond offerings for a hospital, airport or things like that. The evidence of a job well done is that nothing happens. My GCs got to go to their board and they’re like, “Why is the legal spend high? What happened?” Your evidence is like, “Nothing happened.” 

 

Being able to quantify the value of risk avoidance is hard. That is a commonality that we have. If I have done some proactive auditing, compliance projects, training or whatever, and it’s a ton of money, and guess what? We didn’t get sued, “What’s on my budget that year?”

 

We all come to it from different perspectives in that when folks have seen it go wrong, they see it differently. I’ve had a hospital system lose a hospital because things didn’t go well. I’m not sure they could have prevented it from one more training session or whatever, but when things go terribly wrong, you start to see the world a little bit differently in the way that is legally spent.

 

The other interesting piece about legal spend and it just came to mind, it wasn’t in mine before this in my prep, was often when we look at the bill at the end of a transaction, the legal fees get scrutinized because they feel like they’re a lot. They often aren’t the largest of the professional fees. You’ll see the investment banker, the broker or something get a large commission. You probably didn’t use a lawyer to buy your house, but some people who read this may.

 

The broker who got you that house probably got a 6% commission. There’s no way that you paid five figures to a lawyer to look at your purchase and sale. Scaling is one part, but it’s about lawyers figuring out ways to create value for the client. I’m a big fan of value-based billing, although it’s a double-edged sword. I always like to have a conversation at the end of the transaction about, “Do you feel like you got what you needed on this transaction? Did you get the value that equals the dollars?” 

 

That’s nice. I’ve never had anyone ask me that before.

 

They should. It’s good for the conversation even if you don’t say, “We thought this should have been more efficient.” Although I don’t think I’ve ever had anybody come and say, “You guys did such a great job. Let me pay you some more.” Alternative fee arrangements are becoming more popular. Although I’ve never found people to be satisfied with them. 

 

That’s the problem. The rates are expensive so then you get people who get a knot in their stomach when they get a bill and they get a little angry. Even if they did get value, it’s like it shouldn’t cost that much. You feel that way when you buy a house or when you go to the grocery store. 

 

I bought a minivan for nearly $50,000.

 

Recruiting And Retention

 

“I want my money back.” I’ll see you cruising around. I want to go back to winding down here. This is one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show. One of the things you like the most is the recruiting, retention and team development. I’m trying not to generalize, but in my experience at the law firm, maybe we went to dinners or there’s a summer program and there were some activities, but I didn’t feel there was a lot of interest in developing me or developing me as a professional. You’re somebody I think that does that well. I want to know about it. 

 

I’m at a point in my career where I’ve probably done better financially or whatever than I ever expected to. I’m in this give-back position now. I want to invest in the people business in developing people. It is probably going to work out for me financially. Well-developed people are going to go and do amazing things, whether for my team, or they’ll leave and go do other amazing things. I don’t know that there’s a better investment for you to make than in other people.

 

For my team, and we make it a priority, it’s a regular conversation that we have, and we talk about building something special. We’re all here to build something special. It’s the way we recruit and invest that we’re all here with a similar vision in building something special, which for me will mean that someday I’ll have a legacy, a dream would be for somebody to say, “I work with that guy.” 

 

The Legal Department | Tim Reimers | Outside Counsel Relationships
Outside Counsel Relationships: The way we recruit is the way we invest.

 

Like a coaching tree. Like you’re at the Andy Reid of Real Estate Law.

 

Wouldn’t that be great for some day somebody be able to say that about you? It’s great because what that Andy Reid or Bill Belichick tree is, they invested in those people and they made them better. When you make people better, it’s got a doubling effect. They make their families better. You give them all sorts of things and frankly, it’s fun. If you make somebody better and then you get to work with them, that’s awesome. We go out and we get to have fun working on projects knowing that we’re good at the thing that we do because we all invested in doing this thing together. It’s a tricky thing to do though. How do you do it? 

 

That might be my next question. 

 

It’s hard. Trial and error. I’ve made a ton of mistakes. I’ve pushed too hard. I’ve not pushed enough. I’ve hired folks that I probably shouldn’t have hired because it was expedient and things along those lines. There’s a handful of things that I learned in that process, and I try to keep an eye on and make a priority of what we’re doing. First is diversity. Diversity is a buzzword a lot these days.

 

We focus on DEI and things along those lines. I think that those are important. It’s not a but. It’s an and, but what I’m looking for is diversity of experience. Folks on my team come from construction, litigation and bankruptcy backgrounds. They’ve done all sorts of other things. They’re the son of immigrants who came and bought gas stations and they worked the counter when they were kids. They came from North Carolina or Northern California. They come from different things. They’ve seen different things. That diversity helps fill out a team very well. You can’t have a good baseball team if everybody is built like a catcher. I need folks who can see and do other things.

 

Finding teammates is important, but what makes a good teammate? A teammate is going to sacrifice something of themselves for the greater good. There are great players, Jordan, LeBron or some of them. It’s basketball season. We’re in playoffs. We’re watching a lot of basketball. These are great players. A great teammate is one who’s willing to subordinate themselves a little bit in order to give something back bigger to the team, then that raises everybody up. you need people who are willing to buy into a shared vision.

 

The Legal Department | Tim Reimers | Outside Counsel Relationships
Outside Counsel Relationships: The great teammate is the one who’s willing to subordinate themselves a little bit in order to give something bigger back to the team.

 

If you’re not on the same page about what you’re trying to accomplish, you’re not going to be going in the right direction. The last thing that I think is super important in this team-building exercise and the pre-development exercise is gratitude. It’s not like gratitude towards me for having hired them, but having a gracious attitude in life and for things, because I think gratitude is the best indicator of potential for happiness.

 

It is underappreciated, but it is such an express train to happiness. 

 

If we can build happiness, we’re going to build a more cohesive team. Our clients are going to be happy. It becomes infectious if you are happy and you can project that to your clients, friends, colleagues, and others, then they’re going to want to work with you. They’re going to want to build things with you.

 

While we’re building a team that wants to build something special, we can’t do it without a bunch of concentric circles around us. We need other people to at least buy into our vision in part. If we can build ourselves to be happy people, that’ll work. It’s the bigger happiness. We’re all going to be a little dissatisfied with this or that at the moment. The big picture of happiness is something that’s worth driving for. The root of it starts with gratitude. 

 

The big picture of happiness is something that's worth driving for, but the root of it starts with gratitude. Share on X

 

Pump Up Song

 

On that note, this has been a great conversation. I like to end with the same last question for all guests. This is something that brings me happiness but also helps me change my energy, so I have a pump-up song for different purposes. I’d like to know, what is your pump-up song? 

 

I had a Punk and Scott radio show in college. I got to see a lot what great shows. It was great. I got to see a lot of great shows. I went to UC, Riverside. It was that era where the sky movement was big and it was great. You had indicated it changes with the target. When I’m with my kids and they want to get pumped up, my daughter likes DJ Khaled, All We Do Is Win. My son likes driving guitar licks like thunderstruck. I been thinking about this since I’ve been reading your show, whatever is I going to say, I think the ‘90s Pearl Jam’s Anthem Of Alive is what I’ll return to most. What’s yours? 

 

I have a couple and I made the mistake of playing one of them in the car with my thirteen-year-old daughter. Explicit lyrics are much more explicit when played with a thirteen-year-old.

 

When they sing them back to you, that’s the real thing.

 

That’s the mirror. Dirt Off Your Shoulder by Jay-Z I listened to almost every day in 2018. That’s my go-to because ladies are pimps too. With that, I love having you on the show. Thanks much for doing this.

 

Thank you for having me. 

 

 

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About Tim Reimers

The Legal Department | Tim Reimers | Outside Counsel RelationshipsTimothy Reimers is a partner in the Real Estate, Energy, Land Use & Environmental Practice Group in the firm’s Los Angeles office.
 
Areas of Practice
 
Whether closing an acquisition of large real estate portfolios, financing sophisticated projects or providing legal counsel on day-to-day operations, Tim is focused on delivering positive change through providing healthcare, social infrastructure and impact investment clients with the highest possible level of legal advice.
 
Tim is a leader in the healthcare real estate and finance practices. Tim strategically counsels some of the largest healthcare systems and other healthcare industry participants to achieve their missions through the acquisition, development, financing, syndicating, operating and monetizing, real estate and other capital resources – bringing an industry leading understanding of healthcare regulatory, return on mission, tax matters, nonprofit, canon law and other ethical considerations to each transaction. Tim’s experience and reputation is built on innovative work in a wide range of projects.

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