The Legal Department

Leading Teams In The Legal Department: Michele Mollkoy Cottage Health

The Legal Department | Michele Mollkoy | Leading Teams

From the first day of law school, you were trained to be the one with the answer, with little to no training about working on a team. But in the workforce, you should work with others, and as the saying goes, “If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.”

In this episode of The Legal Department, change management consultant Michele Mollkoy shares how curiosity, listening, and self-awareness are crucial for lawyers leading teams. Whether you’re the leader or a team member, you need to be curious about others on your team, what motivates them, and how to align team strengths to department goals. It’s good to be curious about what’s important to the boss. Tune in to this episode for insights on moving from an individual contributor to a team leader.

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Leading Teams In The Legal Department: Michele Mollkoy Cottage Health

On this episode of the show, I’m excited to welcome Michele Mollkoy who is a Change Management Consultant and Manager of Learning and Change for Cottage Health.

Michele, how are you?

I’m great. Thank you.

I’m so excited to have you here. You’re my first work colleague to be on the show, so feel very special. You have a lot of superpowers, which is one of the reasons I wanted to have you on. This is a show for lawyers. Your work is a little adjacent to the legal profession. Could you talk a little bit about what change management is and what you do in your day-to-day?

Sure. Change management is about implementing strategies for affecting change in an organization. It’s helping to strategically advise and then execute. The way we do it at Cottage is we focus on the people side of change. If you have a software implementation or you have a reorg, anytime you’re asking people to behave differently, it helps to be thoughtful about how you’re going to approach that. My area provides that as part of our portfolio for the organization. As far as learning, most organizations have learning and development where we help people with professional development, leadership development training, and a lot of employee engagement activities and interventions.

I have to tell you that most of those things are very foreign to lawyers. We don’t get a lot of legal training on that, so I’m really excited to have you here.

On this episode of the show, I’m thrilled to introduce my friend and coworker, Change Management Consultant and Manager of Learning and Change for Cottage Health, Michele Mollkoy.

Michele, welcome to the show.

Thanks. I’m happy to be here.

You are my first and only coworker that I’m interviewing for the show, and that says a lot. You have this very special, unique skillset. It’s something that is an area that lawyers certainly need to work on. I’m really excited to delve into that with the audience. The specific topic I wanted to talk about, and you and I have had this conversation a few times, is lawyers are trained to be the best and to know the answer. I watched Legally Blonde with my kids, which, in reflection, may not be appropriate for a nine-year-old. My modern brain didn’t remember that there were some more mature topics.

I watched some of the law school scenes there and it brought me right back to how we are trained and conditioned to be individual contributors. We are trained to run very far and fast alone. That is not how the business world works. In certain types of roles, you can be an individual contributor and do well. Sales is maybe one of those. As lawyers move into leadership positions and certainly in a corporate or in-house environment, they really need to be team players. I want to talk about how we can do that. When you’ve been so ingrained that you’ve got to be the all-star quarterback, how do you move into being more of a coach or a supporting cast?

I agree with you. It’s really hard, and it’s helpful to acknowledge that. These are things that are hardwired. You were trained one way for years. You were affirmed and rewarded, and you have a default. You always have to have the answer. There’s that concept a lot of times of certain roles getting paid to solve. There is an element of flipping the script or flipping the switch and recognizing that it is no longer about you in the same way.

There are cliches about how leadership is about getting things done through other people and the way you win is as a team. What that looks like is getting curious and showing curiosity. It’s not just being curious, but acting curious where you really want to learn. You come in as somebody who is interested in what’s going on with the other people, what they’re doing, what they’re working on, what they care about, and what they want to see happen. You don’t do it in a way where you’re interrogating them.

That’s tough. As we’re talking about this, I’m thinking about my conversation with Scott Westfahl from Harvard. What we both resonated with is the legal training is to criticize or to be skeptical. That skepticism and the bent to poke holes does come across as interrogation, even though there is curiosity in it. That’s really tough. Talk more about being curious, what that looks like, what the questions are, and how to ask questions.

Be Curious

You make a great distinction because lawyers can be curious in a certain way, and that comes across in a certain way. That’s not maybe the way that’s going to be the most effective in what you’re trying to do because what you’re trying to do is bring this team together, to get them to work together, and to succeed together.

If you’re Inspector Javert walking around, no one’s going to want to open up and share with you. You have to try to create psychological safety and build trust. There are all kinds of techniques if you want to get really detailed. I still remember this time when I took over a team and I went to one of their meetings. I knew it was going to be a struggle to listen, so I told myself I was going to write everything down. They were talking and I was taking furious notes.

I’m sure they thought I was writing down all of their profound insights and wisdom, but what I was really writing was, “What the heck are they doing here? Why would they do that?” Thankfully, no one saw my notes, but it was helping me to tame that voice in my mind in seeing all these blind spots and places that I thought needed fixing.

I was then able to reflect, think about it, and make a plan for approaching those things. Going slow to go fast is something that I say a lot, but going slow is a power move. Pacing things is another piece of it. Strategically, it is that approach of a humble posture and of not trying to find the weaknesses so that you could pierce them, but trying to understand.

Another way to think about it is you want to think in the frame of reference of the other people on the team, not your own. Think of their frame of reference. How are they going to respond to this? What do they think is going on? What’s most important to them? You could be focused on this one thing and they’re like, “Over here. Big deal,” and you’re like, “Oh my gosh.”

We’ve also talked about the context of communicating where you as a leader think that you have delivered a message or you’ve said it over and over again, and then people don’t hear it. It can be shocking. How do you put yourself in other people’s positions? I had a coach one time. This is not exactly on the topic, but it is related. She said to me, “How do you think people feel after they leave a meeting with you?” That helped me really get out of my own chair and look at the other person. If you were trying to read others on your team in terms of getting a project done or whatnot, how would you put yourself in their shoes?

I would start by asking. Sometimes, we think we have to go away, figure all this stuff out on a mountaintop, and be the expert. You could come in as a learner and say, “What is most important to you about this project? What are the top five things you think are your priorities?” It’s not like, “This is a test.” You ask, “Why are those your priorities? What makes them your priorities? What would you do if I dropped something on your desk and said, “Work on this now,” would you say, “I need help with these priorities?” or would you figure something out?” You’re trying to get to know people.

It’s then working on what’s important to them and what matters to them. Maybe the culture of the organization is super important to them and they view themselves as preservers of that. The history and what has gone before is super important. Maybe there are other people that are like, “Storm the ramparts. Let’s go find new ground. Let’s stop looking backward and focus on what’s ahead.” That’s really important to know because you’re going to interact with those people and assign them projects in different ways. If you don’t have this basic understanding of them, what matters to them, and what they care about, it’s going to be a lot harder.

As you’re saying that, I keep thinking that as lawyers, we’re trained to solve the problem and get it done. Whether someone feels strongly about the history and whatnot, it’s like, “Can we get the work done?” That’s what I’m thinking. You recommended a book to me, What Got You Here Won’t Get You There, which I’ve been reading. It’s interesting because as you move into leadership, you have to use the team. The team is how the work gets done. That’s where the tension comes in, because as an individual contributor who’s been a high performer, you’re like, “Can we do this?” To the point about the book, the get-it-done as an individual isn’t going to get your team to get it done.

Force compliance is not a sustainable motivator.

In the legal profession, it is, unfortunately.

It can be an immediate motivator, but over time, that’s not going to be successful. I do want to clarify. You make a great point. There’s a lot of misunderstanding out there about soft skills, like listening. These are all tools to get the work done. People shouldn’t sit around, take their Myers-Briggs assessment or whatever, and then talk about it like it’s a fun fact where we can slap labels on each other and go on our merry way.

These are all things that are meant to serve our goal of doing the work that the organization requires and pays us for so that we can continue to advance the goals of whatever company we work for. You’re not doing it as an end in itself, and that’s where the leadership comes in saying, “This is all working us in a certain direction. I want to make sure we’re on the same page. One person’s foot isn’t on the brake,” or, “Another person’s foot is on the gas,” and that kind of thing.

Let’s say I’ve got a project and we’re going to do this transaction. We’re going to execute this transaction. I’m like, “Here are the steps. These are the things. Julie, I need you to do this. John, you’re on due diligence, assigning things out.” What am I curious about, and how am I moving John and Julie forward other than telling them, “Get your foot on the gas.”

Team Success

I don’t know John and Julie, but I’m sure you do. I don’t know how long you’ve been working with them, but you know what they’re good at, what they prefer, their work approach, and their style. You’re going to match their skills and affinities to the jobs that need to get done with the understanding that we all do what we all need to do and this is an all-hands-on-deck kind of thing. Especially if this project relates to change, which is one of my favorite topics, then you get to go, “Change is not a spectator sport. Everybody plays.” You’re talking to them and figuring things out. You’re there to help them identify obstacles, overcome them, and move the ball down the field.

It’s about being more of a coach as opposed to the star quarterback.

That’s right. It’s thinking to yourself, “I can still be the quarterback. I’m still calling the place. It’s just not all about me. The goal is different. The goal is the team’s success. That is now my goal. My drive and ambition, all of that is now directed towards everybody else succeeding.”

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I hate to generalize, but there is this training and conditioning about our job as lawyers to solve the problem and get the work done. Dealing with soft skills, people’s feelings, whether they are fulfilled, and all that can almost be viewed as an impediment. It’s like, “I don’t care if you’re happy. Let’s get this done.” If you can reframe your perspective on having folks aligned with what they like and what our needs are, that will make us more successful as a team. We won’t have to force-comply people to get the work done. That’s a good way to reframe our motivations.

It’s not plug-and-play, right?

Yeah. Let’s talk more about listening. I know you did a program for our organization on that. I did a lot of work on improving my own listening. It’s still a work in progress. I want to talk about what my coach calls already listening. It’s listening to reply versus truly listening. Can you talk about those two differences or those different styles of listening?

Yeah. I want to say one thing because listening and curiosity are closely related. What I was describing about being curious is it’s almost like you’re an anthropologist and you’re studying these people. It’s like what I described when I was taking notes in my meeting. You’re there to learn how these people work. They’re like a little tribe. You want to understand the cultures and the customs of the way that they operate.

With listening in particular, what you are referring to with what your coach is talking about is the people that listen to reply as opposed to listening to understand. It’s part of that curious learning. I talk about sometimes that if someone recorded a conversation between you and another person or you and your team at a staff meeting, could you make it your goal that you are the person who talks the least on the record?

I like that.

What you tell someone else is less important than what you enable them to tell you. That’s where the magic is. That’s where the gold is.

Say more about that. Why is that?

You’re being curious. Good job. It’s because that’s how you find out how they work and how you can best work with them and best deploy them. As a leader of people, a supervisor, or an enabler, you want to be able to know them as well as you can because that informs what you’re trying to do. When you learn about them, then you’re able to do that.

The Legal Department | Michele Mollkoy | Leading Teams
Leading Teams: Know your team as well as you can.

We use the phrase psychological safety a lot. It’s creating an environment where people feel safe to speak up. We work in a place where you could say people could be afraid to speak up because if someone makes a mistake, it could be a life-or-death situation. My position is that is why it is so incredibly important to have a safe space for people to speak up. If I can’t speak up here, when can I? I have to be able to say, “This is a problem. This is a system issue,” or, “This is a workflow issue, not necessarily a personal issue.” It’s like, “We’ve set this up to get this result, and it’s not what we want.”

I’ve taken over a couple of departments in my career. When you talk to people who have worked in a role for a long time or worked in a department for a long time, there are these obvious things that have always bothered them or improvements that they thought should have been made. You’re like, “Why didn’t you ever say anything? That seems like it’s a real pain in the neck that you have to spend all this time on your TPS reports,” for example. I think it’s because they think no one’s going to listen. On the topic of a safe space, how should leaders be listening in order to encourage that and encourage communication and getting the gold, so to speak?

One way is to always celebrate when the truth is told. Never shame the truth. To your point of that earlier example about, “How come you guys never said anything?” or, “How come you’re still okay with that?” That’s the definition of culture. It’s how things go around here. At some point, somebody probably did speak up and then there was a negative interaction. Who knows what that was? Maybe it was, “We don’t have money.”

The Legal Department | Michele Mollkoy | Leading Teams
Leading Teams: Always celebrate when the truth is told. Never shame the truth.

The idea is whenever someone speaks the truth about anything, you can’t shame it. You can’t have, a lot of times, a disproportionate reaction to something. You have to say, “Thank you for saying that.” You can go and deal with it and investigate it later, but people have to know that their voice matters and that they have someone who will listen to them.

I like that. That Marshall Goldsmith book talks about, “Thank you,” to be your first response when someone tells you something as opposed to, “Yes, but,” or, “No,” or, any kind of explanation about what they’ve said doesn’t matter. Have you seen, and I’m sure you have, the video It’s Not About The Nail?

Yeah. I’ve shown that video lots of times.

That was another thing my coach shared with me a couple of years ago. I played it for my husband and our girls. It became a family thing. I feel like every leader should watch that.

I’ve shown that a lot of times. It’s excellent.

It takes some deliberate effort to move out of that, especially with the legal training of, “You’re not telling me something so I can solve your problem.” It’s listening for different purposes. There are some times when people do come to you to solve a problem or answer a question, but there are other times that it really is to get to know you, get something off their chest, and learn.

That is hard. Separate from whether you’re an attorney or not, sometimes, people processing can be annoying or you’re impatient. It’s like, “Don’t you have anyone else you can talk to about this? That’s what I’m supposed to be.”

I’m like, “That would be me. That’s what I’m in this chair for.”

It’s not easy, but it’s so important.

One of the main things I wanted to talk about in this conversation was if you’re a lawyer, moving into a leadership team leader role. It’s being curious and listening. Maybe you’ve been a peer with people and then became the leader of the team. How should someone approach that? That can have all kinds of baggage or issues to deal with.

Get Emotionally Healthy

I would hope that they would decide to be curious and listen. Overall, no matter what the job is or the circumstance, whether you’re walking in with people you’ve never met before or becoming a leader of peers, the most important thing that a leader can do to be successful is to get emotionally healthy. That’s something that is true no matter what. I once heard somebody say, and I don’t remember who, “The leader must be the most self-aware person in the room.” I think about that all the time. What that looks like is becoming more self-aware, whether that’s the Hogan Inventory.

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What’s the Hogan Inventory?

We haven’t talked about that?


It’s a big personality deal. We could talk about it later.

Do you have to have somebody do an assessment for you with that or is that something you could Google and try out?

Both. It could be done in the context of a coaching thing where somebody’s doing some other things, but it’s also something that you could do. Some of these things, they recommend that you do them with adult supervision.

I don’t want to give the impression that folks can DIY their leadership journey, but I do like to give resources wherever possible. I try to be super self-aware. I’ve talked about it a lot. I’ve worked with a coach for more than a decade. You can take a Hogan assessment. If people aren’t self-aware, maybe they don’t know they’re not self-aware. That’s a whole other challenge. What are other ways to get more in tune with your emotions, so to speak?

You can do what works for you. I don’t want to tell everybody the same way. Getting a coach works for a lot of people mostly because it’s a forcing function to reflect on themselves and get perspective. It’s when someone else that you trust and respect says, “Tell me about your professional history in times when you’ve had real disappointments and struggles or times when you’ve had real successes. What do you attribute that to?” Going through that, thinking about your personal life, and going to therapy are all things that help people recognize things in themselves because they’ve made a commitment to spend some dedicated time on it.

For other people, reading a book is fine as well as listening to podcasts, going to conferences, or going to a certain destination for a certain experience like a workshop. Asking for feedback is free and available at all times. Also, it can be super duper helpful. With our people, the goal isn’t to sit around and navel gaze. That makes everyone impatient and go, “What is this doing for me?”

It is to do it in the context of what you’re trying to build, accomplish, and do. It’s like, “Who do I want to be? How am I going to get there? I should probably learn a little bit more about what my triggers are, what are the areas where I have blind spots, what are the places that I tend to fall down or tap out, what are the places where my shoulders are really broad and I can handle a lot, where I get so much energy, and what excites me.”

That’s good. Being reflective is a larger function you’re talking about. You’re a high performer and that’s how you got promoted. Typically, how folks get promoted is that they’re acknowledged or observed as being somebody who delivers. When you get into that leadership role, you’re supposed to deliver, but you deliver through the people who work with you. Being self-aware of how you show up to that team is a really good concrete tip for folks.

I watched the documentary The Greatest Night in Pop. It was about the night that they recorded We Are The World.

I want to see that.

Somebody recommended it to me because they said it’s a study of Quincy Jones and his leadership because he had all these amazing individual contributors like Bruce Springsteen, Diana Ross, and Michael Jackson. It was incredible. I’m dating myself, but it was insane. They all walked in. It was after the Grammys. They were all in LA already, which is genius. None of them can bring any assistance. They walk into this sound studio. It was pretty chaotic. At one point, he wrote on a piece of paper and slapped it up above the door. The sign that he wrote said, “Check your ego at the door.” It’s Michael Jackson.

People have the right to have an ego, like Diana Ross.

He had to get people around this concept of, “We are here for something bigger than ourselves. This is not about us. This is about what we’re trying to do.” You’ll have to watch it to see what happens. It’s that principle of, “This is not about me anymore.”

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It can be about you, but it’s not you as the star of the show. It’s you leading a team function.

Isn’t that cool when you think about the fact that you’re the thing behind the thing?

You’re the conductor.

You’re the mastermind.

You started off with this. I have an 80/20 rule for work, which is that 80% of your time should be for things that you love at work. Whether it’s writing contracts, handling litigation, managing a team, or whatever those things are, 80% of your time at work should be on those things that you love. The 20% is why you get paid. You have to write the TPS report. You have to fill out the evaluations. You have to process your legal invoices. You said matching skills and affinities with the job that needs to get done. I know you’re a Strengths Certified Coach for the Gallup Strengths curriculum. I wonder if you would talk a little bit about that and whether that’s a good tool for team leaders to use.

It’s a great tool.

Talk a little bit about what it is.

The Strength’s Personality

The Strengths philosophy is that we all have innate gifts and talents that make us excel in certain areas. There’s a concept of flow where it says you do something and you lose all track of time. It’s something that is so enriching for you that you’re so caught up in it. The concept of Strengths is that we should spend our time on those things, not in a way where people go, “I took this Strengths test. It says I should never have to do a TPS report because that’s not my strength.” It’s a little bit broader than that.

If your strength is strategic, achiever, communication, context, or discipline, then how you succeed in these tasks is through using these strengths that you have. Anybody can do any task, but you’re going to do it maybe differently based on what your strengths are. I’m going to do a presentation in a certain way because my strengths are relator and individualization. Someone else who has the communicator or WOO strength is going to do it differently, but we’re going to get to the same outcome.

The concept is that everybody has a unique combination of strengths. You want to figure out what that person is really good at. For example, if people have a lot of strengths in an executing area, so they’re good at getting things done, you have them do things that require getting things done as opposed to asking someone good at executing to think strategically. That’s going to be a challenge for them. That’s going to frustrate them, and that’s going to frustrate you. You’re not going to get what you need out of them.

Maybe you ask somebody who’s great at talking to not talk or the opposite, somebody who’s great at being behind the scenes and thrives in those kinds of roles. For somebody who’s very methodical who thinks things through and doesn’t make changes to plan, don’t put them in a situation where there’s a lot of fly-by-night changes and they need to be adaptable. Those two things don’t go super well together.

Everybody can do everything. It’s about when you have everybody who knows this about themselves and about each other, you have engagement because they feel like, “I understand myself and I understand the other person and the other person understands me.” That creates that environment. That’s what you’re looking for.

That goes to your original recommendation, which is to be curious and learn about your team. As you gave the example of somebody who’s an executor and we’re going to do an all-day visioning session, that person’s going to be pretty miserable. I’m going to have to give them a task during that day of, “How are we going to execute these things?”

The Legal Department | Michele Mollkoy | Leading Teams
Leading Teams: Be curious and learn about your team.

You don’t want them saying ten minutes in, “How’s this going to work?”

I’ve seen that person. I’ve been in that session. StrengthsFinder is one way to do that. It’s interesting to the point about self-awareness or self-reflection. I want to know from your experience how many people don’t think about themselves at work, what they like, and what they don’t like. I’ve done this where I’ve been asking folks, “What are those things? What’s your 80%? Let’s talk about what gets you jazzed. What are those days when the days fly by? It’s where you leave work and you’re like, “I got so much done and I feel great.” People, I don’t think, spend that much time reflecting.

A lot of people, when they hear the 80/20 thing, and maybe this has happened to you, go, “That sounds nice. I don’t get to determine that much of my work. I get things given to me. I don’t get to say, “I got my 80% already. Sorry. This is going to put me at 87%, so I can’t do it.”

I do hear that feedback. I do hear, “This is the job.” I said, “I’m a leader who’s going to help you develop your job into what you like to do.” That’s an easy reflexive response to not have to do the work to say, “I like executing. I don’t want to sit in your strategy session and vision board. We’ve got to get the files reorganized. Put me in a room for a week and let me color code and whatever.”

I don’t think a lot of people think this way. I don’t know if I’m opening a can of worms with this, but some of the younger generations are more aware and in touch with what helps them to thrive at work.

That’s right. I was thinking about this because I was listening to another podcast about the generations. For many of us who are a little more senior in our career, there was a mentality about doing the job you’re asked to do. This is the job and this is the box. The democratization of information and platforms that give people access to different things where you can access almost anybody has broken down some of those rigid structures. Lucky them.

We all should have a call to action to not sleepwalk through work and not sleepwalk through our lives. It’s like, “What do you like?” I think about that for myself all the time. I reflect on that all the time. I’m like, I felt great today. Why was that?” or, “That was a bummer. I was really suffering through this meeting. Why was that?”

The more you can communicate that to your boss and say, “This is where I seem to shine and what I really like,” informs what projects you get put on, what things you get asked, or where your expertise is utilized. That’s how it’s supposed to work where everybody is doing their best and working at their best at their highest level for the goals, not to sit around.

I like that too. That’s another good perspective on it. This show is for all lawyers who want to develop their careers. Maybe you’re not seeking a leadership role necessarily but you want to feel more fulfilled at work. Let’s talk about empowering people to communicate that once you have taken some time and think about what you like, to bring that forward.

It’s similar to the advice I give to leaders. If I’m your employee, it would be in my best interest to get curious about you as my boss, what are your goals, what are your priorities, and where are you focused.

The Legal Department | Michele Mollkoy | Leading Teams
Leading Teams: As an employee, get curious about your boss, goals, priorities, and focus.

Let’s underline that.

You’ve heard me say this before. My number one job when I go to work every day is to work on what my boss thinks my job is. Once I’ve done what my boss thinks my job is, and maybe that’s the 80%, then I can work on the other stuff that I would like to have my job be or whatever. I don’t go there until I’ve first figured out what my boss thinks my job is. I need to make sure that we are on the same page with that.

It’s being aligned with that. That’s a good point. That’s the point I want to draw out, which is that it’s a two-way street. For the leader, it’s imperative to look at the team, see what their strengths are, find out what they like, and align them with the work that needs to be done. On the other side of the table, the team member needs to be asking, be curious about the leadership, the goals, and why we’re doing this, and make their own assessment of, “If this aligns with what I want to do and what I like to do.”

It’s like, “How will this meeting I’m going to today connect with our top goals or the goals of our department? Can I see that direct connection? If I don’t, then I’m going to ask you as my boss to connect those dots for me.” Those dots need to be connected.

I’m really happy we talked about this. This is a similar point. I interviewed Jeannine Taylor who leads the legal team at Keck Medicine of USC. She did a lot of work getting feedback 360 for her own leadership. What she learned from that is how much leaders needed to be asked about what they care about and to also hear some affirmations about what they’re doing well.

I heard about a study that Gallup did coming out of the pandemic about engagement. Everybody was worried about frontline workers and low-engagement frontline workers. Everybody was like, “What are we going to do to help these frontline workers?” The study said frontline workers are engaged. Who’s not engaged are the middle managers. They are not engaged maybe because they got through this whole pandemic and laid everything out on the line to get through that. They’re like, “What’s next?” They’re tired.

Everyone’s tired. We could have another show all about good sleep, which is one of my things. In addition to being brilliant and having all this really insightful information about teams, people, and leadership, you also have these little go-to Michele-isms. I wanted to throw one out because we’ve talked about team development. One of my favorites is, “What does this make possible?”

That is so annoying. People hate that question.

Why? Tell me about it. Why do you say it?

I say it in the context of lots of times when we’ll be in tough decisions or tough conversations where we got bad news, something’s not going to work, or something isn’t working. We’re seeing the negatives or we’re seeing what went wrong. I cheerfully pipe in with perfect timing usually, “What does this make possible?” It does tend to lighten the mood and make people chuckle because the concept is like, “What can we do now that we couldn’t do before because we were committed to this,” or, “We were tied to this outcome,” or, “We had hitched our wagon to this. Now, there’s change. Now, there’s something else. Let’s open our minds to what else is out there” It’s a little reset question.

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Do people like that or do they think you’re annoying?

Both. It depends, but I know something is working when I hear other people say it.

That’s true. I’m going to borrow that one because even in hard times and bad news, there is rebirth and there is possibility in every situation.

I was talking to somebody. One of their high performers is leaving. They’re like, “How am I going to go on? I depend on them.” I’m like, “What does this make possible? Could you do a reorg?”

Maybe bring that listening with understanding and say, “I’m sorry. That’s really hard,” first before you tell them, like, “Get over it.” On the topic of good news, I end every show by asking guests this question for a little bit of levity. The topic is music. I’d love to know what your pump-up song is.

I’ve had different pump-up songs at different times in my life. For a long time, it was a lot of classic rock such as Journey and Led Zeppelin, and then a little bit of Pink! I Am Here is one of my favorites as well as Rihanna’s Diamonds. Not long ago, I listened to one of my favorites, Fight to Win by CeeLo Green.

Thanks for coming to the show.

Thank you.

If people want more information about change management and leadership coaching, where can they find out more about you?

We’re all on LinkedIn, so that’s probably the easiest way. I also have a website,

We’ll check that out. Thanks so much.

Michele Mollkoy’s baseball stats.

My name is Michele Mollkoy. I am a Change Management Consultant and Manager of Learning and Change at Cottage Health. A fun fact about me is that I won my school spelling bee in fifth grade.

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