The Legal Department

Finding Identity Outside The Legal Department: Executive Coach Carol Fabrizio On Finding The Life You Want

LEGD 4 | Finding Identity


It’s too easy in our profession to be a little too stuck in our identity as lawyers. But once we get outside the four walls of the legal department, who are we, really? Who are you going to be if you suddenly woke up tomorrow and you’re no longer a lawyer? In this episode from the Professional Development series, executive coach and leadership development consultant, Carol Fabrizio talks about finding identity outside the legal department. She shares insights on how to move away from achievement-based thinking to find greater satisfaction and fulfillment at work and in life. She also explains how a coaching relationship can give you a safe space to do introspection work and find out who you really are. Tune in for more!

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Finding Identity Outside The Legal Department: Executive Coach Carol Fabrizio On Finding The Life You Want

In this episode, my guest is Carol Fabrizio. She’s an executive coach, leadership development consultant, and rugby player. We’re going to be talking about professional development, a topic I’m super excited about, and give some tips and insights for some of us lawyers who can get a little too stuck in our identity as lawyers. Come on in.


LEGD 4 | Finding Identity


My guest is my longtime friend, Carol Fabrizio, who is a facilitator and executive coach. I knew her as a rugby player many years ago. She has continued her love of sport but also branched out into leadership development. Carol, this is one of my first sessions that is purely about professional development. It’s a passion area for me. It’s also an area that lawyers and other professional service providers don’t spend enough time thinking intentionally about. I thought this would be a great conversation for our audience.

I’m so glad to be here for it. As you know, I started as a lawyer. I didn’t have this work until I moved into a different space. There’s a lot of untapped potential here.

I want to hear a little bit more about your career development. In my experience and for other lawyers, we tend to be very linear. We’re going to go to take the LSAT, go to law school, and try to get on law review or moot court. We’re going to get a clerkship or into the big law. It always feels like a predetermined path. You haven’t taken that so I want to hear about how you made a pivot.

In all fairness, I was in that linear mode too when I started at a law firm. I was at Gibson Dunn, a great place to be. I knew pretty quickly I didn’t want to be a partner. All of a sudden, the end of the line felt not as enticing. I had to start thinking about what else I might want to do. I don’t even know that I was that conscious about it but I did start thinking about where I might want to go.

I had a couple of tougher moments in my second and third years when I realized what it would take to be a partner. I didn’t want that either. I knew I needed to make a change earlier. I liked the law. I liked practicing but I knew that the lifestyle of big law was not for me. I wanted to do something along the lines of something I was more passionate about and something where I felt a little more purposeful.

One of my clients at the time, I was still a junior attorney, but I was working on a very cool deal for Vail Resorts, which is a company based in Denver. At the time, they had five resorts and were acquiring their sixth. Now, they own 40 resorts. At the end of that deal, I asked for a job in-house and they gave me one. I’m still not sure about my luck there but I went in-house.

Good for you for asking. That was a good opportunity.

I have to tell you that it took me months to work up the audacity to ask because I didn’t even know if that was okay to talk to a client that way or ask about that. I talked to an external recruiter. I wanted to make sure I was doing it right. Luckily, eight months later, I ended up in-house at Vail Resorts. I still feel so fortunate because Vail Resorts has a huge focus on leadership development.

Was that a happy accident? This client that you liked happened to have a focus in an area that resonated with you.

I do a lot of one-on-one coaching but I also do corporate leadership development programs. The reason that I care so much about those is because they changed my life. I got to take some psychometrics and work with some external coaches. I started to learn more about myself through these programs. I know that that can change, not just where you are in the organization, that’s what we always think about how can we move up but how you feel about yourself and your life. That can be a gateway drug for people who might be interested in this work.

Lawyers in particular, I don’t know, are that introspective or take that much initiative around their professional development and satisfaction in the role. In my law firm time, I learned a lot. I think of it as a residency like you would have if you were a doctor. I remember one of my projects was going through volumes of the federal register. I remember thinking, “Is this going to be the rest of my life? This is not right.” I was trying to find the next thing. The career services in law school don’t teach you and it’s hard to find what is the right fit for you. You were lucky to find a place that sparked this interest in professional development.

It took a winding road to end up having that be my focus because I was In-House Counsel for five years and then I was Chief of Staff. I ran communications in the same organization. It was a place that allowed me quite a bit of career mobility there. Part of the reason I had that is because they saw people as open to change, evolution, and development. I knew that if I was going to leave the law behind, I would want to do it in an organization that believed that.

Also, in a place where you had already built somewhat of a reputation where people know you and are willing to let their idea of you change. I do think that is one of the reasons that are behind why lawyers, in particular, but a lot of professionals who spend a lot of time training, get to where they are. They have a hard time with introspective work around what they might want to do because there’s so much of their identity wrapped up in it.

A lot of professionals who spend a lot of time training to get to where they are have a hard time with introspective work around what they might want to do. Click To Tweet

I realized that in my last job. When I left, it felt like, “Who am I?” I had to come to the conclusion that I’m more than my job but it was super hard to accept that. It’s sad and wild. I’m sure you help a lot of people with those big issues.

It is hard and feels sad at the moment but it’s also complete human nature. You spend so much time training and working in a profession that carries a lot of cachet. My mom still introduced me as a lawyer. I’m like, “Mom, I haven’t practiced in ten years.” It’s that kind of thing that you become accustomed to, and then you spend so much of your day-to-day doing it. It’s hard to know who you are outside of that.

That’s interesting about the external cachet because I do want to get into that a little bit later about why are you doing things. Are you doing them because it’s satisfying and fulfilling? Are you doing it because it’s externally a shiny and flashy thing? Tell me about the pivot. You were in an executive role. You worked at USA Gymnastics and we could probably do a whole episode about that. How did you move from an executive role to choosing executive coaching and professional development as a career?

On the self-awareness piece of this, I had a hard time moving from having counsel and chief in my title to saying I’m a coach. That was hard. I’d gone through a lot of coaching but I had that attachment to those titles. I feel like it is hard even when you spend your life doing it. I got into coaching a little bit by accident because we did a ton of professional development and personal development at Vail Resorts.

One thing I knew was that when I was going to start leading a team where I didn’t have any subject-matter expertise, I was moving from being the Chief of Staff to being the Head of Communications, I was going to have to get some skillset I didn’t have. I was used to being, as I think a lot of lawyers are, subject-matter experts in what I was doing. I knew I was going to have this incredible team of 30 people who knew PR and communications way better than I did. How was I going to help them be a better team if I couldn’t give them the answer to anything?

Coaching, I didn’t know as much about it as I do now but I knew that it was a process of powerful inquiry and seeing what you can pull out of people rather than what you can give them or tell them. I started coach training a little bit on a whim to say, “This is another skillset that I could do.” I had gone through all of the high-potential programs that we had. I was at a point where I could have hired somebody one-on-one or gone through this training and seen what it was like. I went for the training.

I then had to start coaching people. That’s part of the training. You have to practice. You don’t just get to do it. Honestly, at first, it was super hard. It did not come easily. I was used to being the advice giver or the expert. All of a sudden, I was trying to stay in listening mode, ask all the questions, and see what they see and what their agenda is. That was a perspective shift for me.

I love developing people. When I had a bigger team, I enjoyed helping people reach goals but it’s exactly what you’re saying. The instinct is to come from, “Let me give you advice.” It’s super hard for all people, especially lawyers, to move into inquisitive listening mode. That’s a major character shift.

Sometimes when we talk about positions of power, we can talk about it on a spectrum from advocacy to inquiry. If your whole job is advocacy, it’s going to be very hard for you to move to the inquiry side where you’re asking more questions and staying open. Coach training taught me that and I’m so glad for it. I had no idea that at some point it’s this thing that was a little bit arduous for me.

I had scheduled a client on a Saturday. This is when I moved to USA Gymnastics. I had a full busy job so I wasn’t taking clients during my day. I was dreading it because it was a Saturday. I got up, met with a client, and left energized. I felt better after the call than I did before the call. I thought for a split second, “This is something I should listen to.”

In complete honesty, we had some life logistics situations that made it easier for me to take a leap and try that, which is a privilege. We had it at that time so I did. I moved into coaching full-time, got connected in a lot of leadership development spaces, and started working on programming and team facilitation as well. That’s how I ended up in the role that I’m in.

Let’s talk about what coaching is and what it can do. I honestly don’t know how I fell into it. To toot my horn, I’m self-aware. I had an experience at work when I was in one of my first leadership roles where I realized that in some of my interactions with people who reported to me, they weren’t leaving super energized from those conversations.

I asked my boss, “Could I get someone to work with to help me?” She’s like, “You’re great. What are you talking about?” I was like, “There’s something that’s not quite right.” That evolved into all the fun. It’s a fun exploration that coaching can give you. Maybe I’m biased but I don’t think most lawyers take advantage of coaching or know what it is. Can you give us an overview of what is an executive coach and a coaching relationship?

It’s a partnership. It’s supposed to be a thought-provoking and creative process where the coach is there to help create an environment for you to reach your goals. Sometimes that means being safe, supportive, and holding you when you’re having that hard moment, metaphorically speaking. Sometimes that means challenging you and holding you accountable for what you want to do. It is usually forward or goal-focused. The past and how you’re showing up and being aware of that is part of how you change and move forward. That stuff comes up but it is more forward and goal-oriented.

It’s not therapy though. I’ve had some coaching conversations where my coach will say, “This isn’t therapy.” Don’t you have to get into figuring out why you’re doing certain things?

There’s an ethical line there. Therapists are licensed professionals who can diagnose and treat mental illness. That is not what coaching is. With that being said, the insights you have from a therapeutic relationship, being in therapy, or knowing how your past is affecting you are part of what makes coaching effective. You will have to identify some of the beliefs and thought processes that you have that are holding you back from going where you want to go.

Growing up, I was a hard worker. My brother was the brilliant one and I was the hard worker. I still have feelings about that being a load but I didn’t even realize that that was impacting me. Even when I got out of billable time, I never felt okay not being underwater. Even though I would say I wanted more rest or balance, when I did have it, I felt like I was doing something wrong. I was guilty of something. I had built my professional identity around being a hard worker. I had to understand that process to say, “That belief being a hard worker was the only way to be good.”

It was something that helped me get to where I am at. It’s probably what helped me study for the LSAT. It helped me get jobs. It helped me in work and finishing projects but it’s not helping me anymore. At some point, those beliefs stopped serving you. I was at a point where I was exhausted, tired, and wanting more time with my young son at the time. It wasn’t that I couldn’t get a break from work. I couldn’t get a break from myself.

You hit home a little bit. You had the early training about this but the whole legal profession and the training you get in law school reinforces that. “How many hours did you study this weekend? How many hours did you bill?” It’s all measured by the amount, volume, and outcomes.

I thought the other side of that was I don’t want to punch a clock so I turned something into very binary. I’m either punching a clock or working hard. I learned by working with a coach and creating a process around, “How do I want to work?” Also, being intentional about deciding, “What is it? If I don’t want my work to be hard, what do I want it to be?” I decided that I wanted my work to be purposeful, intentional, and mean something to me. That doesn’t mean it has to be hard. It can be challenging but it doesn’t mean hard in the sense that I have to work twelve hours a day for it to count.

Let me ask this granularly. The coach helps you identify that this is a pattern or a theme that is holding you back. If it started when you were a kid, how do you stop doing that?

It’s like rolling a bowling ball down a muddy track. Every time you think that consciously or subconsciously, you’re creating this entrenched pattern so undoing that is hard. A lot of times, people will identify these thought patterns and then beat themselves up for weeks or months afterward because they didn’t immediately change it. That takes work and effort to change the default settings in your brain where you’re like, “I have to work hard,” to something else. “I’m working meaningfully and intentionally. Am I being purposeful and intentional?”

You have to find ways to trigger yourself to move from one thought to another thought. Thoughts are just sentences in our brains. If you can be conscious and aware of when they’re happening or impacting you, you might not always hear that specific thought but you might feel some anxiety as you go to shut your laptop down because you could do another 30 minutes. That’s that thought impacting your action.

Did your coach help you identify that as a theme or an aspect about yourself that was leading you to be unhappy or tired?

This is the beauty of coaching. Her questions helped me identify that. It was my insight that said, “I can’t. I need it to be hard. I need to have long hours or it doesn’t count in some way.” That is what is, in my mind, amazing about coaching. It isn’t somebody else hearing you and saying, “Here’s my diagnosis of what your thoughts are.”

It’s them asking and saying, “What is the thought behind that? What if it were like this?” It’s asking these open-ended questions about what’s behind that. As an example, going back to the identity piece, I know exactly where I was standing when my coach said, “Who would Carol Fabrizio be if she didn’t have any of these titles?” I said, “How dare you?” I was so pissed and dumbstruck. I didn’t know how to answer her.

I get you and see you. That is wild. That’s a scary question.

I could have said, “I value this and care about this.” This is why I do love coaching because the difference is she asked a perfectly open question. I could have answered the question if I had that answer right away. “I’m a person who values this. I’m a mom.” I didn’t. I was dumbfounded. I had to think about that a lot more. Had she said, “It sounds like you don’t know who you are without any of your titles,” it’s the same thing but it’s a much different thing.

You wouldn’t have called her back for sure.

Even if she was right, I would’ve been on the defensive. One of the things that’s important about any coaching relationship is that the coach has to have a certain level of humility around what’s happening because you are not in your client’s brain. You are there to help them see what’s happening internally by asking those questions but you can’t have an attachment to the answer because that’s not your role. You often get surprised. Clients say things all the time that I don’t expect them to say. Staying curious and open is a key piece of doing it right.

As a coach, you are not in your client's brain. You are there to help them see what's happening internally by asking questions, but you can't have an attachment to the answer because that's not your role. Click To Tweet

You do coaching for all sorts of people but you have a specialty in professional services and legal coaching lawyers. Maybe with your background, what do you find? Are there any common themes or issues that lawyers are working through? Do you have some tricks that they can help people unravel?

A few of these we’ve already talked about, which is the connection to your title being a large piece of your identity, and then that compulsion to work at all costs. There is no should here. There’s no, “You should only work this much.” If I were going to say any should, it would be, “You should be intentional about the way you want to set up your life regardless of your profession.” People in professional services generally have become so successful by being the experts and staying on this linear path.

Coaching is exploratory. It is asking questions about your identity, pushing the boundaries, and asking you what you might want to do differently. That can all be a little bit threatening. It’s humbling for anybody, especially for people who have gone through their adult professional lives to be a well-respected expert with a title that has a lot of cachet. Humble yourself and say, “I don’t know what values I want to lead my life with or how to connect with my six-year-old son because I’m not there enough.” Those are hard things where I want some help.

I’m going to share my experience. These themes resonate a lot with me and I’m sure they’re going to resonate with the audience. You have been driven. You’ve had goals. You’ve achieved goals by working hard and doing all the things, yet you’re not necessarily fulfilled or satisfied but you do have all this hardware to show, “Look, I’ve achieved.”

It is scary to think, “I want to live more intentionally or figure out what I want.” It’s a little scary to say, “If I pursue that, am I still going to achieve?” That’s what I think I struggle with. As I stepped back and said, “I am not my job,” I spent some time trying to think about who am I and what I want in life. I do feel like I’m a little bit apprehensive about leaving that drive linear part of my personality.

There’s a tension there of like, “This is what I grew up thinking success might be. I got it. Something still feels like it’s missing.” There are a couple of things we can think of with that. Success is something we get to define. It is usually defined by default as we’re growing up by the way that it comes out in our community with our parents at our school. We associate success with those things on your wall. That’s what we think. Get to a place where we say, “What does success mean now?”

It’s okay that it’s different. It doesn’t have to mean the past was wrong. Sometimes people sunk investment class ideas like, “If success is this thing, then what did I spend the last twenty years doing?” I don’t view it like that. You did the best you could with what you had at the time and what you thought success would feel like. The other thing is we equate success with happiness and those aren’t the same.

Success is not the same as happiness. Click To Tweet

Lawyers are being so linear. You talked about when you were at Gibson Dunn, the partnership was what the stated goal is for that type of, for me, in-house and many our audience being the general counsel. It is that gold ring. You can achieve those things and still not feel fulfilled and happy. What a bummer.

Part of this is, especially when you put a lot of time and effort into getting to a certain place, whether that’s getting the degree, GC, or partner, there is a little bit of the happiness destination fallacy of, “When I get this, then I will be happy.” I’m not saying that you shouldn’t have periods or seasons of discontent or where something’s hard but the destination will feel a lot like the journey.

If you keep thinking you’re going to be happy when you make a partner or counsel, when you move in-house, when you get married, or when you lose 10 pounds, it doesn’t have to be about achieving. Everybody has those things that they hinge their happiness on. I’m going to be nicer to myself and give myself a break. I’ll show myself compassion when I do X. That’s a hard pill to swallow.

If you practice all of these thought patterns that are happening, which are largely determining how you feel, that is what’s going to be playing in your brain when you get whatever it is. I’ll use a non-work example. If I think, “My body is okay but if I could lose 10 pounds, then I would feel good about myself.” Put down the chocolate. You do not deserve to eat that. You can see how we might berate ourselves over something like that. If I’d lose 10 pounds, do you think I’m like, “You’re amazing. You look great. Go out and do whatever?” No. My self-talk is going to be the same thing I had before because those are the patterns we’re practicing. We do this on a large scale too, not just about this one little microcosm that I shared.

If you don’t feel the way you want to feel, if it hinges on an event or something happening, remember that it’s very unlikely that you won’t feel the same afterward. You have the power to change how you feel about it by taking that ownership and accountability at this moment. I’m not saying that external events don’t impact you. I’m not saying that getting a much bigger raise, getting a title, or that kind of thing won’t impact you in some way, They will.

If you don't feel the way you want to feel, and it hinges on an event or something happening, remember that you have the power to change how you feel about it now. Click To Tweet

I think short term though. Having achieved the goals that I’ve set, it feels good when you get to check the box, change your resume, or change your LinkedIn profile but then, you’re still where you are. When we talked before, you talked about how many professional service providers and lawyers are unhappy or unsatisfied, despite having made big achievements. Is your coaching work to help them? It is goal-directed. Do people come to you seeking that support to find what they want out of life or their fulfillment or satisfaction or are they saying, “I want to be a partner. Help me figure out how I can get there?”

Both. We always talk about coaching as being goal-oriented. What I tell people about that is to think as broadly as you can about what a goal means. Sometimes that is, “I want a promotion. I want to be a VP. I want to start my business. I want to get that chief in front of my name.” Sometimes that is, “I need to figure out how to change careers.” It’s bigger than that. Sometimes it is, “I feel like I should be happy and I’m not. I don’t know what’s wrong in my life but I’m not content.”

Coaching is goal-oriented. Click To Tweet

There’s always going to be an assessment around, “Is this the right space to talk about it or not?” If it is, there are a lot of things you can do in coaching to start looking at, “Look at all these different areas of your life. Career, family, parenting, spirituality, health and wellness, what is it that feels off to you?” People come in at all different levels but sometimes the goal is, “I feel X and I want to feel Y.” “Great. Let’s figure that out.”

I hope this conversation helps our audience be inspired to seek out support through a coach because of the experience you shared with your coach asking who you are if you’re not all these things. I’ve had those conversations and it stops you in your tracks. Your supervisor isn’t asking you these questions. Your peers and colleagues, these aren’t the kinds of things we talk about at work.

You might talk about it with your spouse but a coaching relationship is a safe space to have those introspective conversations. If their company doesn’t offer a coaching program, I know some companies do and I don’t know if law firms do, I do know of a couple but where can people go to find executive coaches like you?

You can go to the International Coaching Federation website. That’s a great place to start. You can find certified coaches. I’ll plug that for a second. Anybody can call themselves a coach. You don’t have to have any particular credential, certification, or training. The kind of coaching I was talking about would usually be somebody certified through the ICF or has gone through an ICF-accredited program. I always check for that.

There are plenty of amazing coaches who didn’t go through those processes but that helps keep you in the coach route versus the advice-giving route. That’s a great place to start. Ask people if you know anybody who has worked with a coach. I guarantee you that if they like their coach, that coach will give you recommendations on people they know who would be able to help you. Every coach that you reach out to should be able to recommend 3 or 4 more coaches that you might want to talk to.

Fit is important.

It’s the most important of all the things I’ve talked about. That chemistry is critical because you have to feel comfortable. Even when I do a discovery call, people are always surprised for me to say, “I’m going to send you a few names of other people you might want to talk to.” They’re like, “You’re trying to sell me your service.” I’m like, “No. My goal is that you end up with a coach that feels the most right for you because that will make your coaching relationship that much more impactful.” The other thing is when you make those calls, you might want to have a small issue that you want to see what coaching would be like on that.

Try it out. A sample.

Especially, if you haven’t been with a coach before. Let’s say, “I want to stop chewing so much chewing gum.” That’s something I’m working on and I say, “I talked to Stacy.” Stacy is like, “Have you tried this? Why don’t you just not buy the gum?” That’s one approach. Maybe you talk to Susan down the road and Susan says, “What is it about gum that you like?” You had a different engagement and you get to see different coaching styles because somebody can do coaching the right ethical way and still have a million different ways to approach it. You want to get a flavor for their style and what feels good to you.

If somebody does have an employer-sponsored program, this is something I’ve thought about, I feel for myself that you want to feel like there’s some confidentiality that whatever you reveal to the coach isn’t going straight to your boss or HR to say, “Watch out for Stacy. She’s planning to leave or something like that.” If it’s not a coaching program that’s developed to help somebody turn around but a benefit, how does the confidentiality piece usually work with employers?

That can be as specific as the coaching approach but 90%-plus of coaches are going to keep what you and the individual coachee talk about confidential between them. I would have that in writing. When I do corporate-sponsored coaching, there are three parties to the agreement, the sponsor who is the organization that’s paying for it, and the client who is the individual.

In my mind, my confidentiality always runs to the client, including with assessment results and feedback that people give. All of that is confidential between the coach and the client. I might encourage the client to share that with their boss or somebody else but that is theirs to share, not my place. That’s a different role. That might be a consulting role or a leadership development role. If you trust me as your coach, you need to know that what you say stays between us.

I’ve gone so far as to tell people who are hiring me, the sponsor, usually the CEO or the CHRO that if they want to leave the organization or they’re asking for help on changing roles or something like that, my job is to help them. My job is to focus on their agenda, not your agenda. It’s important to be clear about that upfront. It’s one of the reasons I have all three parties, me, the client, and the sponsor sign a contract.

You facilitate leadership development for companies and firms in that sense. You mentioned before that not a lot of law firms are into this. Can you talk about the benefits of a large-scale leadership development program and facilitation?

This is one of the areas where I feel like law firms are so shortsighted focusing on the immediate term and the billable hour. Serving clients is so important but it’s the exponential gains you can get from having, especially your young developing lawyers develop their sense of an internal compass, courage, connection to who they are, and ability to lead with more emotional intelligence. There are so many gains there that are possible. You have these incredibly smart, talented, and driven people.

If you can give them some more tools, you could differentiate yourself as not just a law firm but as an employer. Be a place where you can attract talent based on your willingness to develop people as people, not just as billable professionals. I do think there is a gap here. It’s missing. I’ve luckily gotten to do this on the accounting side a few times with professional services firms in that world. That has blown my mind.

I bet it’s somewhat similar. Big accounting firms are very similar to big law, I would think.

All the stuff we talked about is still fairly prevalent there as well. The companies I’ve been lucky enough to work with, I see how it changes. Not just how people feel about the organization and their work but how they feel about themselves and their sense of direction and ownership in their lives. This is an opportunity for law firms.

You’re right. Anytime you can get folks focused on bigger-picture issues and not just grinding out the hours, that comes through in client relationships and retention. I was at a mid-sized firm and that was a couple of years ago so there wasn’t a ton of focus on this area. At the outset, I benefited so much from any of the assessments, StrengthsFinder, DISC, and all those sorts of things. Having conversations in groups, we did that in the GC office I ran at the university. We had those conversations. It makes you connect as a team in a different way.

There are two approaches that you highlighted there. When you’re working with a team that works together already, when they’re taking the same assessment or looking at the same content, the potential for team building is huge. You can improve communication and team dynamics. You get rid of some of the resentments.

For organizations that are spread out like firm partnerships that are across the country or the world, you can bring people together and have them go through the same program or material. You are getting more internal networking, cross-selling, and awareness. It’s less team building but more organization building. There are a lot of residual benefits that power what we don’t think about as meaningful until we see it happen.

It’s one of those things where you don’t see the ROI. It’s not the same as the billable hours and all that. Carol, thanks so much. Where can people find you or find out more about your coaching and facilitation services if they’re interested?

You can go to my website You can always find me on LinkedIn. I’m pretty active there so either place.

After August, tell me about that. That’s an interesting name.

I started with a company name that was my name to think about for a while. My son’s name is August. After he was born, I started committing to making some of these internal changes in my brain. There were a lot of things that I wasn’t willing to do, change, or make an effort on until I had to face him because I knew that he was going to do things that I did and not what I said. After August, I got serious about starting my business, something that I was always too scared to do before. I would never tell my son to be too scared to do that. After August, I was able to make a bunch of changes that I didn’t think I could make until I felt that pressure. That was life-changing for me.

The other piece is a little broader. We always talk about the spring as renewal but I love this time of year. I love fall. After August season is a time when people turn inward a little bit and start to think about what’s important to them. They hunker down and get ready for the winter. You live in Santa Barbara so it’s a little bit different for you. This is my favorite time of the year. There’s something special about it and the introspection that happens as you get ready for a new year. That’s why it’s After August Consulting.

Carol, thanks so much. This has been a great conversation. You weren’t coaching me but the conversation also made me think about my life. I appreciate your time. Thanks for sharing your wisdom with our audience.

Thanks, Stacy. I appreciate the opportunity.

Carol, in addition to all my introspective work with coaches, one thing that I have done throughout my career and my life is to lean on music when I’m trying to change my mood or intention. Especially at work, there are a couple of songs that I listen to that I call my pump-up songs to get ready for big events. Do you have a pump-up song?

My pump-up song changes regularly based on what is currently getting under my skin. The one that I have is called Joy by Andy Grammer. Please go listen to it. It will make you dance around and clap your hands. My kids can listen to it. It puts me in a good mood.

Carol Fabrizio Baseball Stats.

My name is Carol Fabrizio. I am an executive coach and leadership development consultant. I am also a mom, entrepreneur, and athlete. One fun fact about me is that Rugby has changed the course of my life. I got to play on my very first rugby team with Ms. Stacy Bratcher and I am still involved in the community.


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