Feeling unsettled at work? Things are “good enough” but not quite right… You have a nagging feeling that there’s something different out there for you, but you’re not sure what it is or how to find it.
Or maybe, you know what you want to do, but you feel like you can’t make a change. You’ve invested years working towards the career you have, can you pivot into something else?
In this #GoalGetter episode, executive coach Shayna Bergman shares her story of how she pivoted from an executive career at a major consulting firm to start her coaching practice. She knows first hand what it takes to shift away from a job that seems to “check all the boxes” into something new and unknown. Shayna shares key questions to help you figure out if you’re ready to make a career pivot
We also talk about the unique challenges of working parents and how Shayna supports this special group of professionals.
Thanks to StreamlineAi for sponsoring the Goal Getters series.
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Listen to the podcast here
Goal Getter: How To Make A Career Pivot Shayna Bergman Executive Coach
My name is Shayna Bergman. I am a leadership and executive coach for working parents. A fun fact about me is that I am currently taking drum lessons so that I can one day maybe be a rock star on the side.
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On this episode of the show, I’m excited to welcome Shayna Bergman. She’s an executive coach, and this is part of our Goal Getter series. I’ve been thinking a lot about where we’re at the midpoint of the year, and a lot of people are thinking about their goals and their careers generally, or maybe they’re not because they’re on vacation. One common question I get a lot from folks is about making career pivots. Shayna is somebody who has done that herself and who has coached others and coaches many others on that career issue. I want to really dive in great to have you here, Shayna.
Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.
You have a very interesting story, having come from a big family, big four, big five accounting firm and had a really long tenure there, and now you’re coaching folks, and that’s a pretty big pivot. I thought we could start off by just sharing that story, and like you’ve walked the walk. Let’s dive into that.
Early Lessons In Motivation
I’d be happy to, and if it’s OK, I’m going to actually go back in time a little bit. I grew up with two entrepreneurial parents. We used to be driving on road trips in the 1985 Oldsmobile station wagon just to paint the picture. They would be listening to Tony Robbins on cassette tape. As a little girl, I grew up listening to Tony Robbins, who, if anybody doesn’t know, is a motivational speaker. At the time, while I didn’t want to be hearing it, I think a lot of what I was listening to settled into me. Having watched two parents run a business, I learned a lot about what it takes to motivate people, and what it takes to help people feel connected to their workplace.
For me, as I grew and learned more, I thought, “If I go into the route of human resources, I think I can be somebody who can impact people at work. I can help them find their way through their career and find joy in that.” It was a little bit of a rose-colored view, but that’s what I thought I could do. I went to get my master’s degree. I got it in Human Resources Management Development. I started to navigate my way through my own career, starting at a startup, actually. I went to the Big Four. While I was at the Big Four, for me, I was at what I really still think of as the best of the best.
I worked hard, but I was also very fortunate to grow there into a leader in the talent space. What I learned over time throughout my career, which was almost at that point, almost about twenty years long, I was starting to realize that the impact I could have on people was only, I can only take it so far because it wasn’t mine. It wasn’t my thing. I still worked for the business. I wasn’t at the time a coach, but the role that I was being asked to play in many instances was the role of coach.
I would have leaders coming to me and say, “How do you think I should talk to this person? I’m struggling with trying to help them be more engaged. How do you think that meeting went? How can I have more influence? I feel like I’m struggling.” I was like the de facto go-to for all of this stuff. Nonetheless, we got to the pandemic, and everything was chaotic and crazy. I was at home putting my daughter through virtual kindergarten. I had my son in diapers, and I was running a team and on leadership calls trying to figure out how to help our people navigate what that had become for them and what their lives were becoming while going through it myself.
Stepping Off The Hamster Wheel
It was the first time where I had a chance to step off the hamster wheel a little bit and ask myself, “Am I in the right seat? Is this what I’m supposed to be doing?” It’s hard to do that when you’re successful because I have checked every box. I was making good money. I was well-liked. I had all the recognition. I had an amazing team. I could tell you all the amazing things. Because I was all of a sudden in a place of struggle, it forced me to step back and ask myself, “I’m working really hard for somebody else. What would it look like if I worked this hard for myself?” I knew ever since I was a kid, I wanted to be a coach. I knew that word, which a lot of people didn’t.
That’s wild. Why?
It’s because I had listened to Tony Robbins. I knew what that was, and my parents had hired coaches. A lot of people, I think, it’s like this very trendy, fatty thing where everybody calls themselves a coach right now. I understood what it really was, and so I always had this dream in the back of my mind that I would do that one day. One day always felt like it would have to be later. It would have to be when I retired. I’m not ready. All the stories I was telling myself. That little whisper got a lot louder during the pandemic. That’s what started me down this path.
There’s so much there. Just to shout out to Tony Robbins, I have a copy of Awaken the Giant Within next to my bed. I listened to those personal power cassette tapes. As you were saying that, one thing that struck me is just having exposure to the idea of a coach. Most people do not. You just see careers through your parents or through TV or whatever. You do not even know. Nobody would happenstance you bumped into that. That was interesting. The pandemic being a forcing factor for you is also interesting. Do you think that you would have been in the seat today if you had not had a global pandemic to push you?
It’s a really good question. I do not know. I started to question how happy I really was at some point, but it’s hard when you are, by all measures of what you’re told is success. It’s hard when you check every one of those boxes. It’s really hard to question yourself. To be honest, I do not know. I could still be there, from all I know.
Can you share what it was like? Again, as you were describing your former role, as you said, it had all of those things that people look for in a rewarding career. What was it about that was lacking for you?
I worked with a lot of big personalities, as many of us do. A lot of my job was managing those big personalities. I am a person who has a very high value of respect. In my whole career, I would encounter people and just ask myself, how did they get to be here when they’re such a terrible person? They’re unkind. I started to really know within myself, especially as I was sitting in leadership, I would look at these people who were leaders, guiding hundreds of people, thousands of people.
Cultivating Authentic Leadership Impact
I would sit in a room with them, and I would hear how they think and I would see how they would treat people. I would say to myself, “There’s got to be a better way.” I had some really amazing bosses, and I’ve had some really bad ones. I just knew in my gut and in my heart that part of my purpose here is to help leaders be better versions of themselves because of the impact that they’re making on people. I often would say to leaders, as I started to coach them, and I do now, when your employee goes home at night, they’re talking about you. “What do you want them to say?”
That’s great framing, isn’t it?
Yes. Their kids are listening to how you treat them. Having seen it, I think there was a pull that I was starting to feel and notice, especially as I got more tenured and more experienced, where I said to myself, “I do not think I’m really helping anymore. I’m part of the problem sitting here. If I step outside, I can be a help.” It really did take the straw that broke the camel’s back type of a conversation with one more leader. What was one more day, one more conversation where I said to myself, enough, I cannot keep having these types of conversations and being on the receiving end of them and seeing the impact and feel good about myself anymore. That was when I said to my husband, I think I’m going to look into a coaching program.
He was. Let me ask this. Did you feel like you were making an impact with those folks? Was that part of it like people weren’t changing?
Inspiration often starts early. Discover how early exposure to coaching shaped a career in corporate talent strategy. Share on XYes. I was often handed the problem leaders. Who I was paired with because I was able to have a hard shell and handle them, which I felt very proud of.
“I can handle your hard work. Give me your hardest thing.”
I’m also human. There was still, I think, a toll that was taking on me at some point, I think with the pandemic and the toll of what was happening anyway. Enough. I’m done. I hit a point where I’m done.
Interesting. I’m going to transition into how other people can do what you did. It’s important to just add to your background. One of the startups you worked at was Axiom. It was to change the model for legal services. Lawyers, which is who many listen to this show. I just want to add that to your credibility. You know who you’re talking about.
I do. I have many attorneys and lawyers who are clients now, but Axiom did give me my start. I’m very proud of having worked at that type of place and that type of model.
I’m going to get the episode wrong, but it was like episode 93 or 95. I had my coach, Charles Holmes, on, and we talked about this concept of tolerable conflict where people are just enough unsatisfied at work and just enough yearning or curious about another opportunity or what could be, but those things are so equal that the person stays in that role, stays in that position. Kind of what you were saying, it checks all the boxes. Why aren’t I happy? Just like, that’s the conversation they have with everybody in their life. This is unsatisfying, but I’m staying there. I really wanted to dig into your ideas on how people can pull out of that? Do you have to have a global pandemic to do what you really want to do?
Identifying Your Catalysts For Career Pivot
One of two things has to happen for somebody to make a pivot. There either has to be severe enough pain, what I’ll call pain, where they cannot look away from it. Sometimes that pain comes in the form of a health issue for them. Sometimes it comes in the form of being let go. Sometimes it comes in the form of a loved one getting sick. Sometimes it comes in the form of a pandemic. Sometimes there has to be something that is so chaotic for them and so terrible that they’re forced to look at their life in a different way. That’s the first.
The second thing that I think can happen, which I think is the better way to go, is to actually give yourself the space and the time to reflect on where you are in your life right now. We are all on the hamster wheel. That is how our society functions. It’s what we see all around us. We go every day. When we’re checking all the boxes, we call ourselves successful.
Somebody rarely takes a step back, whether it’s in the form of coaching or some other modality where they’re able to, in a nonjudgmental, objective space with somebody else who can hold that space for them and know how to speak to them and know what questions to ask, where they can really look at their life from the outside in and ask themselves, “Am I still happy? Is this what I want to be doing with my time, with my life? Is this my definition of success, or has it changed, or have I changed?” One of those two things has to happen. Either the pain has to get so great, or you have to give yourself the time to reflect.
I’m sitting with that. I had an event, and I wrote about it. I have a Substack that I occasionally update. I wrote about a situation at my last organization where I was just done. I was just like, “I’m over this. I’m not doing this anymore.” You too talked about checking the boxes. I’m thinking, especially for lawyers who, at least in law school, you enter it through sort of a linear process, linear shoot, and people are conditioned that you do this thing. It’s very progressive, and then that’s what you do. I’m wondering about people feeling like they’ve invested so much and this is what’s expected, and I’ve got this status, etc. Those are heavy things to break through. How do you coach people through that?
They are. First of all, it’s so normal. A lot of times, by the way, it’s handed down because parents were lawyers, grandparents were lawyers. That happens a lot too, but I think it’s very normal when you have worked so hard, and you have had this dream of a career or somebody else’s dream of a career that you fulfilled for them, which I think happens a lot. You invest in the schooling, and you invest in the time, and you invest in all the hours and the work and the time with the clients and the dinners out and the golfing and all the things that everybody does because I hear it every day.
It’s very natural to ask yourself, “If I were to do something else, am I throwing it all away? Was it always?” A lot of the work that I do when people come to that point, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re looking to even leave their career. It could just be they’re looking to operate differently within it. That’s, by the way, hard to do when everybody around you looks a certain way and acts a certain way and works a certain way. Because I think a lot of people that are especially in the legal profession, but other professions as well, the recognition becomes a part of it. It does feed the ego.
That’s very natural. You never want to be the one who’s not the one at the dinner. You do not want to be the one that’s not staying late. You do not want to stand out in that way. Yet, in a lot of cases, your life doesn’t look the same at 50 as it did when you started law school at 22. The work that you put into becoming a partner, for example, certainly wasn’t for nothing because you learned a lot along the way. What kind of partner do you want to be now?
One thing I’m seeing is there’s the old school mentality, and there’s a new school mentality of, “Does it have to look this way?” There’s this tension that’s happening right now, which is coming in the form of a lot of midlife crises. Do I have to do it that way? I see everybody above me, and they’re telling me this is the only way, but I’m not happy. I think people are starting to put their foot down or at least question, is this the only way to do it? That’s where I get to come in and help.
I am encouraged actually that you have, you’re having this kind of conversation. We do not want people to have an adverse forcing event. We do not want a pandemic. We do not want a sick parent or kid or anything like that. Step one is to do a reflection on where you are right now. Do you have techniques for that? It can be tough.
Uncovering Core Values And Acceptance
It’s tough. I have a ton of techniques. I’ll take you through maybe one or two of them. The way that I work is highly customized. Everybody’s different, and everybody’s needs are different. What I pull in and the tools I use vary for each individual. One of the things I use almost with everybody is doing a very simple values exercise, really helping somebody understand what really matters to them. What really drives them? Is it family? Is it financial abundance? Is it beauty? Is it security? Is it recognition?
Is it freedom? There are a million that we go through, but it’s a chance for people to get clear on, “This is who I am, and I always challenge them.” I’ll often say, “I want to make sure when you’re going through this that you’re not telling me values that your parents told you were important.” I’ll give you one. Schooling, credentials. I hear those a lot where somebody sits back, and they say, “That’s not even mine. I actually do not care about that at all.” I asked them to think about, “This is not the 25-year-old version of you. This is the 45-year-old version of you.”
Let’s make sure that we’re very clear on who you’ve become. Sometimes that in and of itself is eye-opening because we then look at it, we rate it 0 to 10, 10 being I’m fully living this value. Where are you on that scale? Awareness is really often the first step for people because a lot of times they do not even have a moment to step back to figure out where they are in space and time to even become aware.
I work in what I call the three A’s. It goes from awareness to acceptance to action. The awareness is the first bit. The acceptance comes in through the conversations we’re having and really understanding and starting to accept who they are and where they are, because if we’re judging it and we’re fighting against it, any action step is going to be impossible. It really does require the meat of it. How do we accept who we are, where we are?
Can you give an example of what acceptance looks like?
Leaders impact their employees far beyond office hours. How you treat your team sets the tone for their entire lives. Share on XIt could be where somebody says, “I didn’t see myself having a family. I thought I was going to be a workaholic because that’s who I always was and how I defined myself. Now I have these two little mouths to feed and people who depend on me. I’m realizing that while this isn’t what I thought I was going to have, it’s what I have now. I love it. I didn’t think I was going to love it. I’m realizing that I really haven’t been there for the last ten years.”
It becomes this like, “That’s not who I want to be, and I need to realize I’m not who I thought I was going to be. I’m somebody different. How do I embrace that?” Like, I really love being a working dad, for example. That’s where acceptance looks different for everybody, as you can imagine, and it’s very nuanced and layered, but that’s a simple example.
I’m just wondering, like, it feels like those values that you thought you had could be very hardwired. One that’s in my mind, and you’ve mentioned it a couple times, is recognition. Lawyers are trained, like the first day of law school, that getting that gold star, getting called on, having the right answer, being on the top of the class, being on the law review, all of those things. It’s just conditioning you that recognition is a value associated with the career. I wonder about, and maybe that’s just an example that I’m familiar with, is there a way to figure out how to untrench, again, a conditioned value like that?
There is. This is what I love about this stuff. I’m going to equate it actually to something a little bit different. I’m going to equate it to a goal. Somebody wants to get a promotion, let’s say, which is a form of recognition. What they think is that when I get there, when I get the promotion, then I’ll be happy. As we know, a lot of people get it. They get there, and then they’re on to the next thing because it’s not enough still. Recognition works the same way. What I help people understand is what the feeling is that the recognition gives you.
That’s really what we’re seeking. We’re not seeking the tangible thing, the goal. We’re seeking the feeling of it, which is why when we think that there’s one pathway and one right answer for it, it can really throw us off. The truth is there’s a million different ways to get the feeling that you’re going after if we can identify what the feeling is. I’ll give you an example with recognition. What you’re saying makes sense.
I hear it every day. We’re so used to it, especially high performers, which is who I deal with as well. We want the gold star. We want the promotion. We want the recognition. We want the title. We want all of the things that come with it. Sometimes it takes a step back to say, what is recognition for you? Defining what it looks like, and it’s like, “I just want to be seen.” Maybe that is what somebody would say that could be it. I want to be recognized for the work I do, for how hard I work.
Maybe it’s what I want somebody to see, just that I’m a team player and I do not get whatever it is. Everybody’s version of recognition is different. We have to define that. We look at where other places you could be getting it. A lot of times people’s eyes open up because they do not realize that there are other ways that they can access it that aren’t just the one path that they thought that they had.
That’s really interesting. I’m going to sit with that for a little bit, Shayna. Anyway, of those three, I know we haven’t talked about action yet, but I feel like acceptance might be a place of hard work for people.
That is coaching in a nutshell. That’s where I spend most of my time is acceptance. Awareness and acceptance, because as we build awareness, then we have to build new awareness, and it continues on, but the acceptance piece is the biggest. It’s the bulk of the work for sure.
You’ve got people feeling their feelings and eyes wide open about my life and my career. Still, there’s a lot of fear. I’m thinking back to your example. I’m sure you were paid very well. You’re very well respected. You’ve got a lot, probably a lot of freedom, and you can do a lot of things because of where you’re in the organization. Again, people would love that. How, again, without a pandemic, how do people get to an action?
Overcoming Fear And Building Confidence
Once we’ve moved into a space of acceptance, or at least some of it, there really does have to be a little bit of courage, a little bit of bravery, because what’s required is for somebody to do something different than what they’ve always done. That is really hard. We become really good at our default mode. That’s what’s comfortable for us. It’s what we know. We think we can predict the future when we do that. Asking somebody to do something different can feel really big. For some people, it could be the littlest step, like speaking up in the next meeting. That could feel monumental to somebody.
For the other person, it could be to leave your job. That is their monumental thing. Everybody’s threshold is different for what action looks like. Some need the baby, teeny baby little bite-sized steps to start to show themselves what they can do. Others are like, I’m ready to jump without a parachute. I have to look at everybody a little bit uniquely, and I’m probably somewhere in the middle through my own journey. It does take sort of, first of all, I think you have to have support, and that’s different for everybody.
It’s important to have a support system as you’re going through a change or an evolution. The second thing is there does have to be self-confidence, and you can probably imagine that’s probably the thing I work on the most with everybody. I do not care if you’re a CEO or an intern. It doesn’t matter what your title is. Everybody has issues with confidence or what I call the inner critic, that little voice that tells you’re not good enough.
I do a lot of work around the inner critic because it’s when we’re about to make a change and take action that the little inner critic gets noisy and says, “You cannot do that. You’re going to be a failure. You’re not going to make any money. You’re going to make your family homeless. Who do you think you are?” All the things that come up. A lot of this is part of the work that we do to be able to get to whatever the first action step looks like, and typically what happens is they take one step, and it’s like, “That wasn’t so hard.”
They take another step. All of a sudden we go from this slow walk to this sprint because they get momentum and they start to realize what is possible for them and what they’re capable of, and you can tell that’s like the excitement part that comes into coaching because everybody can do that. Every single person can do it if you’re willing to put the work in.
I can see and hear that must be super rewarding.
It is. Watching anybody go through a transformation like that is incredible because I know that they can do it. They just have to know that they can do it.
I would bet that there are many situations where you can see that people can do things they never thought were possible.
The number of clients who’ve come to me wanting to solve for one thing and leave solving for ten other things is where they’re like, “I thought I came to you for this, but I got this.” I hear that all the time. It’s incredible to witness that and be a part of it.
That’s awesome. I want to talk a little bit about you. I know you have a specialty within your practice working with professionals who are also parents. I feel lucky that I’m coming up in my career. People are more open about parenting, and I need to leave early and take advantage of some of the flexibility that is available in today’s world. That wasn’t always the case. Especially for men, you’d never hear men talk about their kids. I’m just thinking of a Ward Cleaver situation. Again, you’re very close to this group. What’s special about these professional parents?
Are your values truly yours, or are they left over from earlier in your career? Aligning your values is step one of any pivot. Share on XSupporting Working Parents In Leadership
Anybody who’s a parent knows the amount of things that you can juggle and get done in a day is incredible. I live it. I understand it too, and I also recognize that, especially when you are a high performer, high achiever, that doesn’t just stay at work. It also comes in at home. Where we want to be the best mom, we want to be the best lawyer, the best whatever it is. What ends up happening is that because we’re pulled in so many directions, we end up feeling like we’re not doing any of it really well. Maybe on occasion, we feel like we get a little win or a little nugget, but it’s hard. Part of it is that it is the season of this life. It can feel hard.
I say that intentionally. It can feel hard. I really have a passion for working with this population, A, because I’ve lived it. I remember dropping off babies at daycare, taking the metro into the office, having to pump at work, having to also be leading meetings, having spit up down my back. Having to run out again to make sure I got to take care before it closed, working at night after I got the baby bathed and put into bed. I’ve lived it too. I know what that’s like, and that’s the extreme time of it, but it changes, and it morphs, and it evolves. Even when you have a teenager, it looks different, but the same in many ways.
For me to be able to impact the people that are impacting so many people is important to me. I say that because I believe in the ripple effect. It’s why I like leaders, because they impact teams. It’s why I like parents, because they’re impacting their family. If I can help a little bit, somebody feels like they are able to live the best version of their lives that they can live. I know the impact that has on the people around them. I live it myself. I’ve lived the good, the bad, and the ugly. That is why I just love that population. It used to pain me to see parents struggling so much. I used to sit there thinking like, “It doesn’t need to be this hard. How can I step outside of this and be a helper here instead of part of the issue?”
What are some of their unique issues, or what are some of the issues you hear from those working parents, and how are you helping them?
A lot of it is how do you just deal with the hustle and bustle of the day? How can I show up fully at a meeting when I was up with a sick kid the night before? I’m also going after a promotion, and I’m trying to wine and dine the people that I need to be influencing. I also need to be at my kid’s baseball game because it’s the finale for their season. I feel like I’m on my phone while I’m at the game. I’m not really present anywhere. When I’m sitting in the meeting, whining and dining, I’m checking the phone because the kid’s texting me because homework is due and they do not have what they need. Do you know what I mean?
Yes. I’m sure nobody has lived that who’s tuning in to this right now.
It’s so and so for me to be able to, first of all, normalize this. You wouldn’t believe how many people feel like they’re the only one, that their situation is unique. Of course, we all have our unique things. We all have differences. At the end of the day, it is such a normal experience. Sometimes normalizing it is like the first breath somebody can take to be like, “I’m not crazy.” It’s like, “No, I hear this all day long,” which is usually very comforting for people. Being able to sort of parcel out, first of all, who do you want to be? What does it look like ideally?
Sometimes somebody doesn’t even know what better is. They just know what they have is not good. We sometimes dream, and I usually push them to dream bigger. I hate the word balance, but what does it look like to be able to do it all? Trust me, I’m not somebody who’s going to say you can have everything you want. Look, I think some sacrifices get made. What does it look like ideally? What does it look like for you to go to the game and be able to put your phone down? What does that cost you? Let’s talk about it.
What is the worst that can happen? I love playing that game because sometimes the worst that can happen isn’t that bad for somebody. They realize what’s worse is just not being present and watching their kid grow up. Everybody’s different. I have people that are dealing with the guilt of being a working mom and feeling like they’re seeing other moms bake cookies for the PTA meeting, and they feel like they had to run out and get store-bought ones, and they have a little shame around that.
Can we talk about that? I’m going to come off. This is going to come off like a rant, but I hear women talk to me about this more than men do. A perception that there is some sort of standard that I’m supposed to be doing as a parent and that if I am not doing that, I am not good at parenting. It’s infuriating to me because, like, if there were criteria, if there was a book that we were supposed to be graded on, we would follow that. You’re doing such a better job than you could ever imagine you’re doing.
I want to shake women and say, “Stop judging yourself. It’s okay with it. You do not have to bake the frickin cookies. I actually had this, a great hack, actually. A good friend of mine who is a big baller partner at Amlaw twenty firm. She would have the cafeteria in her firm. Do the cookies. They would be nice and hot and fresh, and she’d have them come, and it looked like she baked them. I love someone that delegates. I love somebody that solves their problems, and it’s funny. I’m lucky enough that I actually planned it that I have a husband who stays home with our kids, but he gets PTO.
We let him have days off, too, and it’s funny because when the girls are home with me, we have a family meeting and we delegate. We run our house like it’s a business, and like, “You’re going to do this, you’re going to do that.” When he’s home, he’s more like a traditional mom. He does everything, like they make my lunch. I just want to encourage parents, especially women, to lean on some of those business skills. You do not have to be, again, having this 1950s version that you’re measuring yourself against to be a mom. I will get off the soapbox now, but it’s just triggering to hear women like, “I should bake the cookies.” No, figure out somebody else to bake the cookies and put your own name on it.
I love it. I could stand on that soapbox with you because I agree. This is why I’m not sure if you’ve heard of this new trend, but I’m a big fan of it, which is the beta mom trend.
I am a beta mom lady.
I’m a beta mom too, and I think sometimes it’s embracing, like there’s nothing wrong with that. In fact, I’m a much nicer person when I’m a beta mom than when I’m trying to be something else that I’m not. This is where I think getting clear on what really matters to you is important. I had a woman. Actually, I remember last year, it was right before Halloween. She said, “Every single parent in my neighborhood is making their kids costumes.” I hate sewing, and I hate making costumes, and I have no interest, and I have no time. She’s ranting. I said to her, “Why do you care?” She’s like, “I do not.” It was like this realization that this is not important to me. That’s all it took for her to be like, “Okay.”
Many hard things. Let’s pivot. You mentioned in prep, and I was very encouraged about this, that you’re working with parent clients, 50/50 male, female. Just generally, I’ve found that men are talking more about their families at work. I love that. Tell me more about the conversations you’re having with those male clients.
I really love my male clients because it gives me some hope that there’s some recognition of that. We do not have to stay in this very old-school way of the breadwinner being the man. They actually bring to me, honestly, the same issues the women bring to me. The difference is, and I think I can speak on this as a mom, the mental load is different. That’s a piece that I really do not think they will ever understand or feel the burden of. That being said, they have the same concerns. It’s the exact same.
“I feel like I’m not being the best dad. I feel like I’m not present when I’m with them. I feel like I’m working too hard. I feel like I’m missing them growing up, but I also want to have a career. I also still want to be successful.” It’s the same issue. It doesn’t matter whether it’s male or female. A lot of times for the men, sometimes they struggle to name the emotional experience that they’re having with it. A woman can tell me, “I feel shame. I feel guilt. I feel sadness. I feel anxiety. I feel comparison envy.”
A man just says, “I’m not happy.” It takes a lot more work, I would say, on average, for me to help them recognize that there is a feeling there. What I teach is that we all start with a thought or a belief. The belief then impacts how we feel. How we feel is what drives our behavior, which is what drives our results. It’s the same for everybody. Belief impacts, emotion impacts, behavior impacts results. When I can help a man understand from a neuroscience perspective, I know you’re telling me you’re neutral on this.
I am certain you’re having a feeling. We need to identify it. It’s like all of a sudden there’s a breakthrough. Usually once I build rapport with them, and they feel safe with me, it’s okay for them to share it. I will tell you, it’s amazing the emotion I see in the space I have with them that I know they’ve told me has never come out anywhere, including sometimes with their partner at home. If that’s what it takes to crack somebody open to step back and say, “I can do it differently. Great, I’m here for it. Bring it. That’s what we do in this space.”
Working parents juggle incredible workloads. Normalizing these shared struggles helps leaders drop perfectionism and thrive. Share on XThat’s so refreshing, actually, because I think I have spent a lot of time with men. I had male roommates in college. I feel like I have a little window into it, and I observe, and, interestingly, you’re talking about, like, they do not have freedom. They haven’t been conditioned to talk about feelings and even like to really be aware of them. That’s an extra load I think many of us aren’t aware of.
I think it’s true. We have the mental load as a mom, but they have a different load that is really never able to be released or expressed. It comes out in the form of anger, or it comes out in other things that I see oftentimes with the male population. I’m happy to hold the space for them and help them work through it the same.
Let’s end on a high, fun note. I always ask guests about music. I love music. I get pumped up before my day listening to all kinds of different things. It was Sabrina Carpenter’s Man Child. What is your Pop-Up song, Shayna?
You’re going to laugh at this one because I do have very good taste in music, I will say. However, my Pop-Up song is actually from the Disney movie Encanto. It is the song What Else Can I Do, which is sung by Issa. The reason I love this song, it is that I listened to it when I was transitioning from my corporate career into my business. It talks about getting rid of perfectionism and embracing flaws. It talks about breaking free from what you’ve always known and expressing your true feelings. That song is still for me, like I have a visceral reaction when I hear it because I had to embody it and I still do.
That is amazing. What a great song to carry with you. Where can people find you?
I’m on all the socials. I’m on LinkedIn, which is where most of my lawyers find me. I’m also on Instagram and Facebook and Substack. I’m @ShaynaBergmanCoaching everywhere. I also run an online community for people who do not want to be in the one-on-one space, but still want access to this type of work and others who are in it as well. That’s also an offering that I have where they can find me.
Cool. Thanks for being here. I’m pumped up from the conversation. You’re very easy and just so much in here for everybody. I really appreciate it.
Likewise, thanks for having me.
Important Links
- Shayna Bergman
- Shayna Bergman on LinkedIn
- Shayna Bergman on Instagram
- Shayna Bergman on Facebook
- Shayna Bergman on Substack
- Awaken the Giant Within
About Shayna Bergman
Shayna Bergman is a certified executive and leadership coach who empowers high-achieving professionals to lead with clarity, confidence, and conviction, in both their careers and their lives. Known for her ability to speak truth to power, Shayna has a unique gift for helping clients spark meaningful breakthroughs, challenge limiting beliefs, and step fully into the leaders they were meant to be.
Since launching her coaching practice, Shayna has quickly distinguished herself in the field, earning features in Forbes, USA Today and Real Simple and building a reputation for delivering real, lasting results. She works with a wide spectrum of clients, from C-suite executives and startup founders to mid-level managers and emerging leaders, through a blend of 1:1 coaching, corporate engagements, and the Lead/Live Collective, her thriving online community for high-achieving professionals. Many of her clients are navigating the complex terrain of leadership while raising families, but whether or not they’re parents, they come to her for the same reason: they’re ready to grow, and they trust Shayna to guide them there.
Her coaching has contributed directly to promotions, company growth, and powerful leadership transformations. She’s helped individuals in the thick of juggling it all find ease and less overwhelm amidst the chaos of life. She’s been invited to lead workshops at corporate leadership summits and speak on podcasts, panels, and keynote stages. Her accolades include recognition as a 40 Under 40 Honoree by Leadership Fairfax, Alignable’s Local Business Person of the Year, and a Marquis Who’s Who Honored Listee.
Prior to coaching full-time, Shayna was a Lead HR Business Partner at Deloitte and helped build the HR department at a thriving global legal start-up. She taught Executive and Corporate Coaching, Public Speaking, and Professional Communications as an Adjunct Professor at both New York University and The George Washington University. Having studied at the Sorbonne in Paris, she’s also conversant in French.
Shayna holds a B.A. from The George Washington University and an M.S. in Human Resources Management and Development (concentrating in Executive Coaching) from New York University. Her credentials include: ICF Certified Coach (PCC); Certified Professional Coach (CPC) by iPEC; Energy Leadership Index Master Practitioner (ELI-MP); Core Dynamics Leadership Specialist (CDLS); and SHRM Senior Certified Professional (SHRM-SCP).
On a personal note, Shayna resides in Fairfax, VA, and is married to a man who makes her laugh, keeps her grounded, and puts up with her ebullient attitude about life. She has two kids who remind her that they’re in charge, who lovingly drag her to all their things, and who enjoy day-long snack times. In her spare time, she enjoys spending time with friends and family, dining out, and hiking. Her superb organizational skills show up in how effortlessly she manages a packed calendar, juggles competing priorities, and keeps herself, and everyone around her, moving forward.
